Condensation question

Discussion in 'Tips & Tricks' started by Mick'nSarah, Aug 22, 2012.

Page 1 of 3
  1. Mick'nSarah

    Mick'nSarah Junior Ranger

    Hi all-

    So I had a question about condensation, and I am not sure if other folks have come across this.

    Laddy likes to sleep in the bottom bunk. Lately, the morning after, I have to pull up his mattress, and wipe up the condensation on the wood under it, and let the cushion dry out during the day. I noticed this was happening only recently, and noticed a little mold starting to build up (I got it all cleaned up, easily, thanks to the lovely wood finish).

    Has anyone else noticed this? Mick is thinking if we do some sort of insulation underneath that section of the trailer, that might help the situation. Cary, any ideas?

    Also, we do leave the door windows cracked (as long as it isn't raining) and the roof vent open (if not on...depends on how well I sleep with it and temperature), so that helps with condensation, but we still get some on the windows with the 3 of us (less when it is just me and laddy camping).

    Thanks for any help!
     
    Mick'nSarah, Aug 22, 2012
    #1
  2. Ladymc

    Ladymc Novice

    Sarah,
    So does the body heat build up cause the condensation? We haven't had any problems with it, but we don't do cold weather (yet.)
     
    Ladymc, Aug 22, 2012
    #2
  3. skissinger

    skissinger Ranger Donating Member

    I'm still a wanna-be... but I tent with a foam mattress; and every night I would have to flip it on it's side to let the bottom air dry. Until I bought a section of this: http://www.hyperventmarine.com/

    It was on the pricey side for only a section big enough to put under a single foam mattress pad--but ZERO condensation since then. I think I paid almost as much for the HyperVent pad as I did for the foam mattress and bedding, lol. But in my opinion, well worth it.

    I am planning on going to CI-CO (as a wannabe, currently in a <gasp> tent); so if someone wants to check it out before buying just track down the (likely) only tenter there. :)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 6, 2016
    skissinger, Aug 23, 2012
    #3
  4. Betsey

    Betsey Camp-Inn Staff

    Be careful what you ask for.... :whistle:

    ***********

    Sherry,

    That looks like an excellent solution! And although it is a bit pricey, what you gain in not having the condensation issue, drying off the mattress, & preventing mold growth is well worth it.

    Thanks for the tip!

    :cool:
     
    Betsey, Aug 23, 2012
    #4
  5. Cary Winch

    Cary Winch Camp-Inn Staff

    Sherry,

    Yes, good find. I know Jenn also has been looking for a under mattress condensation solution like this.

    Probably something Bear should look at also.

    Cary
     
    Cary Winch, Aug 23, 2012
    #5
  6. Betsey

    Betsey Camp-Inn Staff

    No worries! You will be in good company...there are a few others who will be in tents...and other types of campers/RVs - even partially finished teardrops!

    :cool:
     
    Betsey, Aug 23, 2012
    #6
  7. Craig Edevold

    Craig Edevold Administrator Staff Member

    It might help if I describe what is happening that causes the condensation problem. I have explained this to several of our "cold weather" customers. It helped to have them in front of me so I could sketch out some diagrams. Since you aren't here, I drew up some pictures and I will try to explain them the best that I can....

    When you are sleeping your body gives off water vapor, either in your breath, or from perspiration. This is the source of the water that condenses on the inside of your camper in cold weather. Even when it is cold out, your skin will give off a tiny amount of water vapor.

    For starters, look at the first picture. It shows a person sleeping on top of a mattress which sits on the floor of the camper. (Look at the scale on the left side) Let us say that the body is warm (98 degrees F) and the outside air temperature is 50ºF. It stands to reason that there must be a point somewhere between the two that is 80ºF. There must also be a point that is 70ºF and so on...

    Let us assume the dew point (the point at which water vapor condenses to form liquid water) is at say 60F. There is a point at which it is 60ºF and therefore condensation should occur, but only if there is water vapor present. Since on the left hand scale, that point (60ºF) is inside the floor,no condensation will occur. Since everything INSIDE the floor is ABOVE the dew point, no condensation will occur above the floor.

    [​IMG]

    Now look at the right side scale. We have lowered the outside air temperature to 40ºF. This in effect >squeezes< the temperatures closer together. In this case, we see that the dew point is just above the floor. any water vapor that reaches this area will condense.

    Now look at the next picture. On the left I have lowered the outside temperature to 30ºF, just below freezing. This >squeezes< the temperatures closer together yet. In colder weather, the dew point usually drops, so I have shown it at about 55ºF. Since the dew point is slightly into the bottom of the mattress, condensation will form below the mattress. Since the mattress is porous, some water vapor is inside it and that water vapor will condense INSIDE the mattress. This is why it is important to air out your camper fully when you have been camping in cold weather.

    [​IMG]

    On the right side scale, I have lowered the outdoor temperature to 0ºF. We can now see that the temperatures are squeezed even more. The dew point is well inside the mattress. Also, if you notice, the bottom side of the mattress is at the freezing point (32ºF). Any liquid water that gets down there will freeze into ice. Water vapor that gets to that area will freeze as frost. If you camp for extended periods of time a significant amount of ice will accumilate.

    Now, lets look at the third picture. Here I have added a little foam insulation between the floor and the mattress. This helps to spread out the temperatures. Now on the left scale, the dew point is inside the insulation. IF the insulation is not porous, there will not be any condensation there. Since everything above the insulation is above the dew point, no condensation forms in the mattress. But, notice that the area between the insulation and the floor is below the dew point. Any water vapor that makes it there will condense. So in this scenario, you will still get water condensing on the floor.

    [​IMG]

    On the right scale, we see that even with the insulation added, we could get condensation under the mattress, since the dew point is there. Since the area between the insulation and floor is below freezing, we will get ice and frost there.


    Camp-Inn trailers were designed to be three season campers. They were not designed for extended camping in sub freezing temperatures. Even so, there are a few things that you can do to extend the camping season:
    1. If you open the roof vent or side windows during cold weather, more of the water vapor will "blow away" and won't have a chance to condense inside the camper.
    2. When camping in cold weather, it is important to "air out" your camper when you get home. You may want to bring the mattress indoors where it is heated and let it dry for several days before returning it to the camper.
    3. If you are camping for extended periods in cold weather,(week or longer)you may want to add some insulation below the mattress to minimize condensation and ice formation. If the ice stays frozen, it won't cause any problems. When it warms and thaws, wipe up as much water as possible.
    4. A plastic sheet (bedwetting sheets)over the mattress will reduce the amount of water vapor penetrating the mattress and reduce condensation inside the mattress.
    5. Dampness is not a concern if you air out your trailer whenever possible.
    6. Water pooling is a problem and will need to we wiped up ASAP.
    7. As Sherry recommended, this pad adds a little insulation but more importantly adds ventilation below the mattress so any water that condenses there has a chance to evaporate when the air temperature rises.

    Hope this helps.
     
    Craig Edevold, Aug 23, 2012
    #7
  8. Betsey

    Betsey Camp-Inn Staff

    I tried to warn you..... ;)

    :cool:
     
    Betsey, Aug 23, 2012
    #8
  9. Ken & Peggy

    Ken & Peggy Moderator Staff Member Donating Member

    I wasn't sure where you were headed with that comment initially... ;)

    Thanks for the excellent explanation Craig.
     
    Ken & Peggy, Aug 23, 2012
    #9
  10. Cary Winch

    Cary Winch Camp-Inn Staff

    LOL!!!!
     
    Cary Winch, Aug 23, 2012
    #10
  11. pat walsh

    pat walsh Junior Ranger

    Craig welcome to the forum - I got a laugh out of the "Im New"!
    thanks for the great lesson in condensation!
     
    pat walsh, Aug 23, 2012
    #11
  12. Ladymc

    Ladymc Novice

    I now have Craig pegged...Bill worked at NASA with a guy named Richard that when asked a question, gave you more answer than you needed or wanted...Welcome to the forum Craig! I await your response - it should be interesting! :)
     
    Ladymc, Aug 23, 2012
    #12
  13. rushthecat

    rushthecat Novice

    Craig, great stuff but it's lectures like this that turned me into a history major! Now having heard all about this cold weather camping I'm glad I'm in FLA. I think we'll camp down here until the condensation stops freezing!
    Mike
     
    rushthecat, Aug 23, 2012
    #13
  14. Mick'nSarah

    Mick'nSarah Junior Ranger

    Craig, thanks for that. Our temps haven't really been that cold, but we are still seeing that, and it is mostly just under laddy, right there on the bottom bunk. Evening temps have been in the 50s or so this summer. I will look into the marine foam and see about that (thanks for that suggestion too). I think I will also have Mick make me some venting boards for our airing out. We have been opening her up and with our hot days things dry and air nicely, but it would be good to get that mattress up every so often. I have gotten under there, and have not noticed mold or moisture...yet.
     
    Mick'nSarah, Aug 23, 2012
    #14
  15. Betsey

    Betsey Camp-Inn Staff

    Sarah,

    Here's another possibility...Craig did say the condensation wouldn't be an issue if the top bunk were used, as the air can circulate underneath it.

    I do like the idea of the Hypervent, though.

    :cool:
     
    Betsey, Aug 23, 2012
    #15
  16. Evan

    Evan Administrator Donating Member

    Good point, Betsey. The weather in the NW has been pretty warm lately. I think the top bunk may have more to do with the condensation than the cold weather.

    Sarah, perhaps it's time to start talking about how 'big boys' get to sleep on the bottom bunk. :)
     
    Evan, Aug 23, 2012
    #16
  17. Mick'nSarah

    Mick'nSarah Junior Ranger

    Dd you mean 'big boys' sleep on the top bunk? ;)

    We try, but he has a thing for the bottom bunk. I am sure one say it will change.
     
    Mick'nSarah, Aug 23, 2012
    #17
  18. Evan

    Evan Administrator Donating Member

    Oh - looks like I had it all backwards. I thought he was already on the top and needing help coming down.
     
    Evan, Aug 23, 2012
    #18
  19. Matt Rogers

    Matt Rogers Novice

    That hypervent bed mat is really a great idea, just a bummer it only comes in 39 inches wide...those boat dwellers and their narrow beds!
     
    Matt Rogers, Aug 24, 2012
    #19
    Jenny n Rob #943 likes this.
  20. skissinger

    skissinger Ranger Donating Member

    I thought about that too... and without an actual CI to measure, using the online measurements I assume I'll want a 9 foot section, then I'll cut it into 1 6ft, and 1 3ft. Then the 3ft section into two 3ft by 19" sections... and then, of course, an actual CI to put it into! Sure, you could duct tape those all together, but I can't see why it would really matter. They go under the mattress anyway-- no one will see that it isn't all 1 piece.

    Oh, and that company must use some kind of different tape measure than the one I have. The width I got was 40".
     
    skissinger, Aug 24, 2012
    #20
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