Windows The Solution To Condensation Drain Issues

Over the past 18 months we have spent a few hundred dollars (not including the $115 we spent on Hyper Vent padding, which helped with the problem I am about to share and cabin condensation in general), not to mention a fair amount of time and effort, in the attempt to solve an intermittent problem:

When driving on rain-soaked roadways, water is thrown into the air by our tow vehicle and other passing vehicles, where it is caught in our slipstream and deposited on the sides of the camper. Once there, the camper's fenders bend the slipstream upwards, forcing water up along the side of the camper, where some of it enters the condensation drains on the door windows (the issue is worse for the rearmost drains, as that is where the most water flows). From there it makes its way down the inside of the door, soaking the bedding, mattress and anything else that it finds. It is no fun to arrive at the campsite with soggy bedding, especially if it is a recurring, even though very intermittent, problem.

A Camp Inn owner, who lives in the Pacific Northwest and who experiences a lot rain, offered the solution to this problem 18 months ago: have Camp Inn send you some free drain caps provided by the window manufacturer, and seal around them. But at the same time we were being given different advice from Camp Inn. So who to believe: One very experienced owner, or someone who has dealt with lots of owner issues, including this specific one? We chose the latter, despite it being the more expensive option to pursue. So on this particular issue I am offering the following as a cautionary post, wanting to save fellow owners time and money, and hoping that they avoid the needless frustration that we have experienced. I hope this post convinces the factory to offer better advice in the future. Here goes...

I should have added two and two together long ago. We had been led to believe that this particular problem was most likely specific to our tow vehicle and others with 'a boxy rear end.' But when that statement was made, we were also aware that this person in the PNW had experienced the same problem. And he/she/it drives a Subaru, which is probably the most common tow vehicle among Camp Inn owners. So this is an issue that affects a significant percentage of owners, not just an outlier or two who are driving uncommon tow vehicles.

You may be thinking, "I own a Subaru, and I don't seem to have this problem. So what the hell is he talking about?" Keep in mind that we travel a LOT (as had the person in the PNW, in the past). And because we travel by tagteam cycling from place to place, on rainy days we tend to time our riding so that it fits in the breaks between showers (we most definitely prefer to be fair weather cyclists). So even for us, this doesn't happen very often - only when towing the trailer in rain that is heavy enough to accumulate on the roadway. And it may be less of an issue for 560s, since they are two feet longer. That would definitely affect the slipstream, but I have no clue to what extent. So this may be an issue more specific to 500s & 550s.

But it is still a significant issue. There have been far too many times that we've prematurely had to find a place in a strange town to launder our bedding to dry things out, we've repeatedly had minor issues with mildew on the underside of our mattress and on parts of our bedding, and at times we've mopped up considerable water sloshing around under our Hyper Vent pad. Many of you probably have experienced this issue to some degree in the past, but perhaps not to the degree where it has been necessary to find a solution or even to where it was all that apparent that it was really a problem (since we travel with our dog Lana, initially we thought she was the reason that so much water was getting onto the bedding). The fact that we so rarely tow in the rain is the primary reason why we have been dealing with this issue for so long - it only bubbles back up to the surface on rare occasions. We are much more likely to tow in the rain during the winter than at other times of the year, hence why we have just recently confirmed the advice from the person in the PNW as being the definitive solution to this issue.

The advice we received from the factory on 30 Nov 2015 for addressing this particular issue was:
"A quick simple fix is to tape off the bottom of the two black plastic condensate drains when driving in the rain. Then pull the tape off when stopped. A more permanent fix is to improve the mud flaps on the tow vehicle to eliminate the spray."

We were later given more specific advice as to the type of mud flaps to get, how high to install them above the ground, etc. We followed all of those suggestions, and even made a few adjustments to be certain they were correctly installed, so that they worked as expected. (BTW, applying tape after the rain has started isn't so easily done, at least not in a manner that functions optimally.)

Let me state very emphatically that adding mud flaps to the tow vehicles simply DOES NOT WORK. It MAY reduce the severity of the issue, but rarely to a sufficient degree to be of any real help. I'll get to the reason why I am confident in making this statement a bit later, as its truth was not discovered until recently, and only after investing significantly more of our money on other potential, yet ineffective, solutions this problem.

[NOTE: I seem to recall hearing about a Toyota FJ owner who solved their problem with mud flaps. That makes sense. It is a significantly wider vehicle, and would likely create a slipstream where water would impact the camper after the slipstream was also being altered by the fenders. In their case, it also makes sense that the wheels could direct spray directly at the condensation drains. I suspect the majority of tow vehicles used by owners are closer to being the width of a Subaru, as is our Ford Transit Connect, so I remain dubious about the effectiveness of mud flaps, based upon our experience.]
On 18 Dec 2015 I reported back that the recently installed mudflaps were not working. The next solution that was offered had to do with the ceiling vent creating a vacuum, yadda, yadda, yadda. Not the problem, so I'll skip that. But I'll add that we found that leakage was worse on the streetside than on the curbside. The reason is that this is a result of us driving primarily on two lane highways, not freeways (a conclusion that we only recently arrived at). It is the additional water thrown in the air by vehicles passing in the opposite direction that causes more water to be interjected into the slipstream on the camper's streetside.

It wasn't until 16 Feb 2016, after we had gone through all of the factory's diagnostic suggestions (to no avail), that we received the replacement drain covers that the window manufacturer offers to solve this problem. It's my recollection that I was advised NOT to seal around the drains, mainly because it would be hard to achieve an aesthetic look. But I'm not going to troll through my e-mails to establish that as fact (I could have easily have been given this suggestion over the phone, I simply don't recall).

About this time, Camp Inn's new hitch mounted mud flaps were announced. My recollection was that we were advised that it may actually have been a better solution for us. But after what we had already spent, we weren't interested in forking out even more money for another unproven solution (we received no offer to field test this new product for them).

Fast forward to this year. We had the time and resources to address this and other lingering issues (mainly related to our van, not our camper), so we forked out $190 or so for the CI mud flaps (my possibly faulty recollection was that shipping had cost us around $45 of that amount). There were lots of issues that resulted from the installation, but I'll leave it to say that it wasn't the most fun experience that I've ever had. But with some additional unforeseen expense, and some excellent help from the local U-Haul, we did get them successfully mounted, though not quite how the factory envisioned, give the low deck height of our van.



Fast forward to earlier this week: we were actually able to tow in the rain again. After driving for just a few minutes, I said to Alea, "Hey! Let's stop and see how well those fancy new mud flaps are working (we were both all excited and tingly, eager to see success)!" That is when we discovered the problem was not solved. OK, but maybe I just need to make an adjustment to the mud flaps? It was clear from looking in the rear view mirror that water was going around the outside edge of the flaps (a stream of water was also visible moving up the fenders of the camper, being pushed along the side of the cabin by the slipstream), so I crouched down in the rain and adjusted them outboard the by 2" or so increment that is allowed by the four sets of mounting holes on the cross arm. The flaps were now extending at least 2" wider than our tow vehicle. We were on a fairly rural road, so it was possible to drive slowly while paying a lot of attention to the rear view mirror. Road spray was being generated in the wheel wells, ejecting laterally into the slipstream, over the top of the mud flaps and continuing to cause water to be forced into the condensation drains. Some water still made it around the outside of the mud flaps, but it was clear that further adjustments wouldn't prevent the water that was going over the top. And any amount of water getting near those drains was allowing water in the cabin.

I tried to get a decent shot of the spray going over the mudflaps and the water running up the fender, but to no avail.​

Our next step? A stop at the Bi-Mart in Emmett, ID, to buy a tube of $6 black silicone, in order to seal around the drain caps. It took a couple of minutes to seal the four caps.

Yesterday I spent well over an hour driving through Seattle-quality monsoonal rains in heavy traffic. Before heading out, I placed strips of dry paper towels inside the door opening, between the green nylon thingy and our black screen door frames. Paper towels are highly absorbent, so it would be very obvious if there were any leaks. Every so often, I would pull under a gas station canopy (to avoid rain directly entering the cabin) to see if any leaks were evident. There were none after several stops over a period of several hours (we were out shopping). So finally, after all this time (and with zero mud flaps - we removed the hitch mounted flaps for the last half of our road test), our problem is solved.

A downside of the drain caps is that the paint chips off very easily.​

Person in the PNW, thank you for the sage advice that you had offered initially. I wish I had given it greater weight when it was offered.

And with this cautionary tale, I hope that no others are led down the path that we've been on. It would be helpful to hear from any 560 owners, especially those who might be most likely to tow in the rain, to know whether this issue extends to them as well, at least for particular tow vehicles.

If the past is any indication, this post will be perceived as being critical of Camp Inn. It is most definitely NOT. There are no sour grapes for us. I've tried very hard to be factual and have been clear where my not-always-perfect memory has been interjected. We learned long ago not to get too worked up about mis-spent money (wait until you hear our next wheel bearing post, about the aftermath of our recent Mexican misadventure). And Camp Inn has more than compensated us with help on other issues. If anything, I suspect we are still well on the plus side in terms of them having saved us more money than issues such as the above have cost us. We love our camper (even more so now that it stays drier) and we think the staff at Camp Inn is awesome. Hopefully this post will help them to be even more awesome.

[NOTE: This post was edited at the request of the person in the PNW, to add an additional piece of information and in one minor spot in order to improve the clarity of a statement. 3 May 2017.]

 

thanks for posting this. I have had this exact problem for the three years we've owned our 550.

I have also installed the new-style drain covers and have had them leak in exactly the same conditions you describe, even down to more leakage on the street side than the curb side. I'll have to admit that I'm surprised that simply sealing around the covers solves the problem 'cause I thought the spray was still blowing up into the hole on the lower side of the covers.

While I'll definitely give sealant a try, I'll keep the electrical tape handy. It's really not much of a problem to just keep the vents taped up pretty much all the time. We always sleep with windows and roof vent open even in cold (20's) weather and have never had any noticeable accumulation of condensation over 145 nights traveling from coast to coast.

r dickson
550 #645

 

Thanks for the write-up and solution.

 

I agree with your ventilation recommendations for keeping interior condensation to an acceptable level. Our experience parallel's yours, though we do allow some amount of condensation to occur, so we need the window drains.

My recollection of removing the old plastic drain caps is that the two drain holes are protected by the body of the new cap. For water to get in there with the sealed, new caps, it would have to travel back against the slipstream. I suppose it might be possible for the slipsteam to force enough water in the new drain hole to eventually fill up the entire cap, forcing water through the drains and into the cabin. But my very limited recent experience suggests that isn't too likely. But several hours of driving in some heavy Florida rain could prove me wrong. But again, the caps are the window manufacturer's recommendation, and the mud flaps clearly don't do the job.

 

I am puzzled as to why the black electrical tape doesn't work. I have been in a lot of rain, and driving wind, but have only had this problem once. Can you comment on the tape?

 

After driving in heavy rains last month, we also experienced wet bedding, for the first time in our 7 years of ownership. When we got home, and did our own leak test with a garden hose, we found the water leaking through the vent. I searched the forum, and found this old post:

1. 
   1DoorNovice
   I put MACKS Kid's Size waterproof earplugs inside the vent holes to help prevent some rain from splashing in from the outside. We haven't noticed any "water" problems and we are here in Florida where we can experience major pourdowns!! You'll see the little "orange" dot on our photo with the new curtains. It stays stuck in there all on its own.
   1Door, Oct 12, 2013
   
   
   I found an 8 pair pack of the above mentioned MACKS earplugs ( Buy Pillow Soft White 6 pair, Best Earplugs for Sleeping, Loud Noises and Swimming | Macks Earplugs. ) at Target for $2.49. Haven't had the opportunity to try them in the rain yet, but have found them to be moldable, and reusable, and they do a good job of plugging the offending vent hole. The plan is to keep them in the glove box of our tow vehicle, to be ready to apply should we encounter rainy conditions in our travels.
   
   Jamie

 

Nobody has said that tape won't work. It is the recommended temporary fix for dealing with the issue on the road.

 

Last weekend went camping. Prior to leaving, we checked the weather report, rain all weekend. Placed electrical tape on the vents and we had no issues with water inside cabin. I love the idea of the ear plugs. We will have to try it.

 

I used painter's tape (the blue stuff) this past weekend while on Florida's Interstate 10 in a torrential downpour. No problems.

 

Ditto with the electrical tape - we keep a roll of cheap-o Harbor Freight tape in the camper. I don't think it's necessarily a "temporary" fix because once it's on the windows, you can't really see it - half the time I forget it's there. In 3 years, I think we've replaced the tape one time and that was only because it looked a bit dirty - seal was still good, peeled off like new, no sticky residue. A little bit of insurance.

 

Thanks everyone for the sharing community. I did so much research on the forums when we were starting out, and it was incredibly helpful to me. Now I wish I knew who all those writers were over time that helped me from past posts. Wishing everyone well. Lorie

 

Anyone by chance have a picture of the window drain after the original plastic covers have been removed but before installation of the alternative caps? I'm curious what the drain holes look like, but can't eyeball it without taking off the original and I understand that removing it breaks the clips.

 

Thanks for sharing. We have a 560 & have traveled through a lot of wet conditions, and we haven't seen any leaking problems. I'll keep an eye for it, but so far, so good.