Considering Adding Solar

[Andrew Cushingham]

Considering adding solar to my 560 and hoping to glean some collective wisdom. I'll try to be brief.

Consideration 1: Should I get it?

• Currently mostly a weekender using Coleman cooler and ice.
  
• Located in TN and found that most campsites east of the Mississippi are well shaded, and there aren't that many boondocking/public land type of sites, so we are often at a campsite that often has hookups.
• Planning a 4 week trip next summer out west and hoping to use public land part of the time. I assume western sites are less shaded and solar is more useful. If we also added a Dometic, maybe that would be more functional than seeking ice every 2 days. We plan to be moving every 2-4 days, so we aren't boondocking in one place for a week.
• I already have a Ctek controller so just need a panel

Consideration 2: If yes, is this roof top panel a good option?

• My 560 has an Ikamper Skycamp 2.0 roof top tent on top. Found this panel that is tailor made for the roof of the Skycamp
• Solarhawk panel
• I think I would just need to adapt the plugend to the one provided by camp-inn that matches the 560 port.

Pros:​

• Permanently mounted and don't have to worry about setup, theft, etc. I suppose I would have to plug in the charging cable to the external port under the side table when setting up.
• Seems like a good quality 110v panel

Cons:​

• Limited value if in a shady spot. Do you roof top panel people also have a portable panel for such occasions?
• Would require orienting the camper for best solar charging instead of best privacy or views.
• Would permanently attach to the roof top tent via 3m VHB tape.

Consideration 3: Would this lead to a domino effect where I want to upgrade battery storage? Do those of you with the AGM battery find it is adequate to run your Dometic, lights, fan, etc?

Question: This panel uses a SB50 Anderson connector and the 560 has a Marinco connector. Would it be as simple as making a short adapter?

 

[JohnC]

I have the factory installed solar. One of the major advantages to it is that because it pretty much lies flat on the roof it doesn't really matter which direction the trailer is facing. In my limited use so far I have found that to be very helpful. Many days I've only received limited sun but it was always enough for my needs. I do travel with a Dometic fridge and it does need to be fed.

My limited experience is also that I don't know how much available sun I will have at any given location. It's always a crap shoot. As such, I've at times, booked sites with shore power to be on the safe side. I hate that but it is what it is. (I'm planning a trip next spring where I'll be gambling on a non electric site among a lot of trees. Wish me luck.) I do have an external panel I travel with but I'm spoiled and really don't want to have to babysit my gear when I want to be away from the site.

IMO, I don't think I would spend the money on a permanent panel that only faced at an angle in one direction. If you don't mind leaving a portable panel out or if you plan to be around long enough to watch it, a portable panel would work fine.

Personally, I don't like the size of the AGM battery. It needs to be bigger. With a fridge and minimal lights usage, it can run down pretty quick. But the good news is that it doesn't take a lot to keep it topped off IF you can get sun most days.

FWIW - I hate buying ice constantly and I hate having to dig through a chest of ice to find food. It's even more annoying trying to sometimes fit the food back in a tightly filled cooler. I love having a fridge but it does require more power. Everything is a tradeoff.

 

[dustinp]

If you are a DIY'er type, you may be able to add a roof top for your time in the sun while driving or in a sunny site, and also have a portable panel with an extension cord for those times when a shaded site with nearby sun is available, both at something close to the price of the Solarhawk you are considering. Would take a little research and time on your part though, so more a matter of priorities. Money vs making time to do the leg work required. JMTCW

 

[Randy]

The XSTAR 100 watt panel is brand new to the market and receiving rave reviews as it is super efficient and exceeds its 100 watt rating. It is very lightweight and folds flat. Note that it does not have a built in solar controller so if your camper does not have a controller you will need to add one like the one below. The connection is an 8mm plug but you can get an 8mm to SAE or cigarette lighter converter, link below. I use this to power the camper with no issues keeping up with the demand. I typically just throw it on the roof of the camper which also keeps it out of sight of potential thieves.

https://a.co/d/26rtNSF

https://a.co/d/2uiSDN4


That said, depending on cloud cover and temps I personally found it sometimes challenging to run both the fridge and camper systems from a single panel while keeping my AGM battery above 12 volts. I now keep my Dometic fridge in the back of my truck and run it off a Jackery 1000 with a single Jackery solar panel to keep it charged while camping (although it honestly could go 3-4 days without charging.) While driving the Jackery charges with a DC to DC charger mounted in the engine compartment with an auxillary charging line run to the bed of the truck. There are previous threads on how to install such a line. I love having the fridge in the tow vehicle, especially in bear country and it eliminates lifting a full fridge. Both the Jackery and XSTAR panels are extremely light weight and easily packed. I am so happy to rid myself of the incredibly heavy 130 watt Zamp folding panel that I previously had! All of this was an investment but I no longer have that constant “<12 volt” anxiety!

 

[gregangsten]

Boy, the price on that Solarhawk panel is way out there. I'm also nearly impressed enough by that XSTAR folding one to get one instead of the heavy glass suitcase I've been using (...but just nearly). I think that if you got a portable panel and maybe got an extension cord setup as well, you would get a lot more use out of it, even in TN. Sometimes I've camped in trees and the extension cord was what made the panel useful.

 

[Randy]

Easy enough to add an extension cord, I have a couple of them. If I had to do it over again I would have two of the XSTARS. The Jackery only puts out about 70 watts. Again, just happy not to have to lug the super heavy glass Zamp around. I think the heavy glass ones are slowly becoming a thing of t(e past. Luckily I was able to sell it.

 

[JohnC]

I'd just say you need to be careful with your expectations on the output of any panel. Todd does do good reviews, but by his own admission, it was a clear day in December in the northeast. I'll bet it was pretty cold out. And he didn't maintain that test for more than a few seconds. I've had my Renogy eclipse 100W suitcase panel read over 100 watts as well on a "cold" winter day in Southern California. But as the panel warms up over a few minutes it won't continue to hold/capture 100 watts. And as the ambient temp increases, it too will decrease the watts you capture.

The other point I will make is that it's apples to tomatoes when people start comparing one reviewer's results with another reviewer's results. (The "professor" he references lives and tests in Arizona. Who knows what ambient temp his tests are done at.) Unless somebody compares multiple panels at the same time, in the same location, at the same angle to the sun, and with zero changes to the haze/clouds in the sky, you are not getting a fair comparison.

The XSTAR looks like a good panel and I'm not at all trying to be critical of it. If I were buying today I'd seriously consider it. But I went through all of this a couple of years ago. I watched youtubes until my eyes bled. When I bought my second panel last year and could start doing my own tests on both at the same time it was very interesting to say the least. And don't forget, every reviewer with a "discount" link for you to purchase from, is making money from that link. They have a vested interest in convincing you how great their product is.

 

[Tour 931]

Thanks everyone who has posted on this thread. I know very little about solar and have read all the posts. At some point I will get one for my teardrop. I’m also thinking of one for the house to power my well and septic pumps along with the propane furnace hot water pumps.

 

[Randy]

I'd just say you need to be careful with your expectations on the output of any panel. Todd does do good reviews, but by his own admission, it was a clear day in December in the northeast. I'll bet it was pretty cold out. And he didn't maintain that test for more than a few seconds. I've had my Renogy eclipse 100W suitcase panel read over 100 watts as well on a "cold" winter day in Southern California. But as the panel warms up over a few minutes it won't continue to hold/capture 100 watts. And as the ambient temp increases, it too will decrease the watts you capture.

The other point I will make is that it's apples to tomatoes when people start comparing one reviewer's results with another reviewer's results. (The "professor" he references lives and tests in Arizona. Who knows what ambient temp his tests are done at.) Unless somebody compares multiple panels at the same time, in the same location, at the same angle to the sun, and with zero changes to the haze/clouds in the sky, you are not getting a fair comparison.

The XSTAR looks like a good panel and I'm not at all trying to be critical of it. If I were buying today I'd seriously consider it. But I went through all of this a couple of years ago. I watched youtubes until my eyes bled. When I bought my second panel last year and could start doing my own tests on both at the same time it was very interesting to say the least. And don't forget, every reviewer with a "discount" link for you to purchase from, is making money from that link. They have a vested interest in convincing you how great their product is.

Good note of caution on YouTube reviews John. In this case there are some direct head to head reviews of the XSTAR out there. I should mention that the Jackery limitation in charging the Jackery 1000 is likely not in the panel but in the input voltage limitation of the built in controller. It’s a common criticism of the Jackery battery. May want to look at other alternatives like the Bluetti.

 

[JohnC]

Good note of caution on YouTube reviews John. In this case there are some direct head to head reviews of the XSTAR out there. I should mention that the Jackery limitation in charging the Jackery 1000 is likely not in the panel but in the input voltage limitation of the built in controller. It’s a common criticism of the Jackery battery. May want to look at other alternatives like the Bluetti.

Yeah, the input capacity of the solar generator can definitely be a capacity limitation. It’s really a jungle out there with these solar products. You really have to do your homework. I have two Ecoflows and one Jackery to go with my two solar panels. And some very limited, preliminary testing indicates I can actually charge the Ecoflows, within limitations, through the rooftop solar via the DC port. But there are definitely some serious factors to be aware of.

 

[Andrew Cushingham]

Thanks everyone for all the input. I see I am scratching the surface of a big topic with lots of info and tempting rabbit holes for the researcher in me to deep dive.

As far as I have gathered, there is a lot of innovation happening with both solar and batteries. Camp-inn has been equipping their campers with a CTEK charge controller since 2016 that intelligently charges the battery, in my case an AGM, via tow vehicle, shore power or solar. This charge controller can accept Solar panels up to 110 watts or so with an upper limit of 23 volts of input.

When it comes to panels, there are a variety of price points that vary based on quality, durability, performance, size, weight, and country of origin.

There are a myriad of variables that can affect solar charging performance including temperature, input capacity of charge controller, efficiency of the panel, and how well the panel is oriented to catch the sun. A permanently installed panel has some conveniences (i.e. little to no setup), but also some limitations (i.e. parking in shade) and so also having a portable panel increases flexibility.

And then you have to capture that power in a battery which also has variables of battery type, size, battery temperature etc. It seems that most will work backwards from what power they need: Fridge, CPAP, coffee maker, charging gadgets, fan, lights, etc. and for how long.

For some, they need/want power that exceeds the stock AGM battery and have turned toward the new hotrod of battery types, lithium. (For deep dive, see Battery - Agm Vs Lithium) There are portable lithium power banks out there, like Jackery, Bluetti, EcoFlow, Anker, etc and also some early adopters/tinkerers who are retrofitting their onboard battery with Lithium.

From Cary’s warning on the thread titled Good Discussion of Lithium Batteries, Lithium has a very dangerous fire risk when charges in freezing temperatures. Camp-inn is testing a lithium battery upgrade/retrofit that has redundant safety features to prevent this risk and they are figuring out maintenance charge management during storage.

A friend of mine with a larger camper rig who boondocks for weeks at a time in Colorado gave me some good advice when he said “Play around with it.”

Sometimes I need permission to try things and learn by doing than stay trapped in my research cave.

Question: For those of you with a portable power bank, how are you charging those in the field? Direct solar panel hookup? Or connecting to the camper’s system? Or tow vehicle? Is this where the dc to dc converter comes in?

 

[dustinp]

Thanks everyone for all the input. I see I am scratching the surface of a big topic with lots of info and tempting rabbit holes for the researcher in me to deep dive....

Sounds like you've made a good start in your research....good luck with your decision, and just remember there isn't a perfect solution, just try to find the combination that will compromise your needs the least.

 

[SethB]

…As far as I have gathered, there is a lot of innovation happening with both solar and batteries. Camp-inn has been equipping their campers with a CTEK charge controller since 2016 that intelligently charges the battery, in my case an AGM, via tow vehicle, shore power or solar…

Small correction here, a CI with the CTEK 12v/12v option has two chargers, the CTEK for solar/TV sources, and a conventional 110v charger for charging from shore power. There are other configurations, but the addition of the CTEK 12v/12v aka DC charger adds a smart charging profile to the TV’s alternator output, as well as smart charging from a solar panel.

…Question: For those of you with a portable power bank, how are you charging those in the field? Direct solar panel hookup? Or connecting to the camper’s system? Or tow vehicle? Is this where the dc to dc converter comes in?

My portable power bank is a Victron 60ah AGM. Small enough to bring in the house for cpap backup in case of power outages, big enough to get me up to 8+ days of cpap use camping. So far I only charge it with shore power. This decision was based on our typical camping. I also upgraded to 100ah Victron AGM for the CI, which serves as backup power for the cpap.

If we retire and start multi-week trips I’ll have to figure out on the road charging for the little batt… but this could be a night with shore power or in a motel… or a marine battery switch setup to select which of my two batts gets charged, or a solar that can be flexibly configured to directly charge the little one or the CI batt. There are options.

I think this underlines what Andrew wrote, that there are many options and much to research. I think the first step is to take a hard look at one’s own power needs and style of camping. Although I’m closely following this thread with great interest, our typical camping in the PNW always has us in shade for most of the day - solar could come into it on longer inland trips.

 

[Andrew Cushingham]

After a good chat with Cary, the next step for me is getting a permanently installed solar panel and seeing how well it performs in regular use at keeping the battery topped off. If it does well, then no need for a portable panel. For me convenience and fewer items to store or setup tip the scale.

Grasshopper I liked your idea of using the Dometic as basically an ice maker for water bottles to feed your Coleman cooler. Clever.

How do you power the Dometic when camped and stored in the vehicle? With the Sogen and portable panels?

 

[JohnC]

I tried a couple other crazy options: charging the little sogen daily from dc cigarette lighter plug, and strapping the dometic down in the CI (kinda) to see if the solar roof could keep up recharging both, and the house aGM, and it did (with some alternator boost I guess towards end of day.

I have tried charging one of my sogens directly from the CI. My first try was at home in the garage while using shore power. It more or less worked but not that well. I believe the short answer is that the voltage being pulled by the sogen, from the AGM battery through the DC, was minimally lower than the voltage that was being pumped into the sogen. So as the AGM battery drained, the input to the sogen weakened. I don't think I'd recommend that option.

The second test I ran was pretty minimal but with better results. In the middle of the day while camped at Zion NP, I plugged in the sogen to a DC port in the CI. But, this time the rooftop solar was humming along and it was charging the AGM rather than the trickle charger that shore power uses. I don't remember the exact numbers, but in an hour's time I know I had recharged the sogen a lot more (percentage wise) than when tested at home in the garage. I think that the voltage from the solar panel charge controller (in my case a Victron) is pumping into the AGM at a higher voltage than what the trickle charger is pushing into the AGM. Therefore, the higher volts coming in, is helping push the current into the sogen...I think/guess? Regardless of how it works, it definitely seemed to charge up much quicker when the solar was charging the AGM than when shore power was charging the AGM.

 

[fernlane]

NEVER RUN THE DOMETIC UNDER GALLEY CLOSED...there is simply not enough room for air to get in and out of condenser and it will cook.

I kind of agree with this but have run the dometic plenty with the hatch closed. I carry it in the TV when traveling but it always lives in the galley when we're camping. Whenever possible I prop the hatch open with a small hunk of 2x4 (use the 1.5" side). If it's going to pour rain then I'll just close the hatch - a little rain doesn't seem to be a problem. We've been doing this for 8 years and haven't cooked a condenser yet. Ventilation is definitely good when you can get it ...

 

[TheSongDogHouse]

I kind of agree with this but have run the dometic plenty with the hatch closed. I carry it in the TV when traveling but it always lives in the galley when we're camping. Whenever possible I prop the hatch open with a small hunk of 2x4 (use the 1.5" side). If it's going to pour rain then I'll just close the hatch - a little rain doesn't seem to be a problem. We've been doing this for 8 years and haven't cooked a condenser yet. Ventilation is definitely good when you can get it ...

Concur, Fern. I've propped the hatch in camp too, and dometic works for me almost closed and works even better that way especially if 90 degrees crosswise to catch the breeze at the condenser end...
and obtw be careful the centered hatch glass lens is not holding up the weight of hatch...

I should have qualified my caution by saying DONT RUN DOMETIC35 UNDER THE HATCH CLOSED and latched in 100-120 degree ambient whilst going down the road in summer direct desert sun

Glad to onow the dometic condenser can hack it under there otherwise, TY.

PS: Ask me about the time I forgot to lock the hatch whilst towing into the wind and the hatch popped uo...lol!

 

[Andrew Cushingham]

Coming from an ice cooler, I think I need some help from you experienced Dometic users.

I was thinking it would replace the Coleman cooler and be stored in the camper and powered by the camper.

I gather many of you transport and often just keep it in the tow vehicle. And you have figured a way to power it.

Does the cooler need to be powered 24/7? Can it be in the galley for transport? How does the need for ventilation limit it’s storage or use?

Are there times when the cooler is off but keeping things cold due to its insulation? How long can you go with the Dometic off and have to power back on?

 

[Van_and_Terri]

Coming from an ice cooler, I think I need some help from you experienced Dometic users.

I was thinking it would replace the Coleman cooler and be stored in the camper and powered by the camper.

I gather many of you transport and often just keep it in the tow vehicle. And you have figured a way to power it.

Does the cooler need to be powered 24/7? Can it be in the galley for transport? How does the need for ventilation limit it’s storage or use?

Are there times when the cooler is off but keeping things cold due to its insulation? How long can you go with the Dometic off and have to power back on?

We always kept our Dometic in our tow vehicle. I have a hot 12v receptacle in it which powers the Dometic. I have left it plugged in overnight with no issue to the tow vehicle battery. Once cold, the Dometic just runs occasionally. I would never let it run off the tow vehicle more than 10hours without the engine running. Boondocking more than an overnight would be an issue for me if not traveling. We have owned our Dometic over 10 years now. Living in the southeast, we mostly camp with electrical hookups at state parks.

 

[Randy]

This has been a great thread and just emphasizes a prior point someone made that there is not one ideal solution for power and many options are available depending on your need. For me, investing in a Jackery 1000 "solar generator" and dedicating it to my Dometic was a great solution and relieved the pressure on the trailer battery. To further my desire to eliminate my "<12 volt anxiety," I also replaced my 5 year old AGM battery with a Victron Super Cycle 100 AH AGM BAT412110081. This is an AGM battery that can tolerate up to 300 cycles down to 100% depth of discharge at at ~$350 a good alternative to a lithium. Thank you Seth for the suggestion. I believe Rotus also is using one. It fit perfectly in my 2014 battery compartment without any modifications. FYI there are apparently some new restrictions on battery shipping and some online stores will not ship to a residential address (c0uld be a California thing )

At the same time I replaced the OEM battery tender with a Victron Energy Blue Smart IP67 12-Volt 17 amp Battery Charger. https://a.co/d/ieM79XK. Installed it under the trailer where my OEM charger was. It's larger than the OEM and did not fit between the tanks so installed just aft of the tanks. It can be controlled by bluetooth, provides lots of data, has future Lithium capability, has a battery reconditioning cycle option and has a specific, preset charging profile for the Victron BAT412110081. If anyone would like details of that install feel free to message me. Last thing I want to do is to replace my OEM battery isolator with a DC to DC charger. I use this same one for the auxillary power line in my truck that feeds the Jackery when driving. https://a.co/d/cNhg963