Victron Ip67 Shore Charger Installation With Photos

[Steve and Karen]

This is a continuation (of sorts) of a couple of my previous posts in this section and a companion piece to Sweeney's highly detailed how-to post of an OEM charger replacement:

Charging Upgrade

I won't cover his same ground (which was very useful guidance for my attempt) but thought I'd post some pics of my installation and a couple comments on the IP67.

The OEM Marinco Guest shore charger died after 7 years of near-continuous use. No surprise there. I was considering a straight switch/replacement, but my recent acquisition of an AGM battery, and its specific charge profile changed my mind.

The Marinco has fixed Bulk/Absorption and Float voltage values of 14.3 and 13.3. This is more than adequate for a standard SLA hybrid/deep cycle, but falls well short of the recommended rates of 14.7 and 13.65 at 77 deg F for my Fullriver AGM. These shortfalls only increase with drops in temperature where the Bulk-Absorp/Float voltages of 15.0/15.3 and 14.0/14.25 are advisable at 50F and 32F respectively. Since we travel in shoulder seasons and I frequently leave the battery in the trailer over winter, another Marinco, it seemed, wasn't going to cut it. Or it was going to take far longer to reach a 100% full charge, even if it was ever going to get that far. Others with AGMs or true Deep Cycles may find their ideal charging specs to be similarly out of whack with their OEM or fixed-voltages smart charger.

Others on this forum have used Victron equipment with good success (shunts, batteries, inverters, chargers) including the IP67 charger. I chose their 12/7A 120V version as it closely mimicked the Marinco 6A in power, and I wasn't sure what wiring/fusing upgrades I might have to do to accommodate their next-up 13A version. It turns out the 7A was the right choice for the OEM 16ga charger wiring and 10A charger fusing inside the trailer. Besides, more Amp capacity also means a bigger housing; this was big enough for the space it was going in as it was.

The IP67 is fully programmable via Bluetooth and the Victron phone/iPad app. Although it does have set profiles for certain types of batteries, you will likely find as I did, that they can be quite different from what you need. Going into the "expert" "professional" settings allows you to dial in exactly what your battery is asking for. Providing you can get past all the corporate lawyer warnings about destroying your battery with incorrect settings.

In addition to the Bulk/Absorp/Float adjustments, I changed the temperature compensation factor from the default -16mV to -24 mV, as the Fullriver requires -4mV per cell. And there are 6 cells. This allows the charger to reach the 15.3V necessary for charging at 32F. I thought that the charger had a temperature gauge/probe that attaches to the battery post, which is what their Shunt has. However, the IP67 just takes an ambient air temp reading, which can be somewhat less accurate, as the battery temperature rises during charging and on-post monitoring is the more reliable source for this information.

AGMs don't require an Equalization stage (which can also be quite harmful) so I turned it off. Other battery-specific parameters can be tweaked, but those are the main ones which will typically stray from the standard AGM profile pre-set. The Victron chargers also have a "Storage" mode, which is a further step down from Float, after a specified time Floating. "Storage" purports to extend battery life by combating natural battery discharge at more realistic rates and intervals than a constant Float.

Per Sweeney, pulling the tail light assembly is about the only way to do this practically. I found the center lens pops out rather easily with some pressure from the inside/back. The rubber grommet easily follows. I made the initial mistake of trying to remove the entire assembly all at once, which is virtually impossible.

View attachment upload_2024-5-17_4-3-27.jpeg

Connections are plug-and-play:

View attachment upload_2024-5-17_5-18-36.jpeg

However, the huge Marinco charger plug was too big to feed back through space and had to be cut off. The Victron's plug is a much smaller profile and feeds easily into this area from the bin side of things.

Since my OEM mounting position was the right bin, recessed into the rear-most wall, I put the new one there as well. But it is impossible to recess it (a la Camp-Inn) in this vertical position, given the plethora of wiring in this space. This was the best location to run wires, allow the battery door removal (very important), and for our existing pots and pans storage:

View attachment upload_2024-5-17_4-30-44.jpeg

(The Curt box above is for the third brake light control BTW) A new plywood plate covers the factory charger hole.

View attachment upload_2024-5-17_4-32-4.jpeg

View attachment upload_2024-5-17_4-32-26.jpeg

I does take up slightly more room in the bin than the OEM. However, we are still able to get a 10pc Magma set, 2 collapsible kettles, a mini-saucepan, frying pan, toaster, grease splatter screen, wind screen and the Omni baking oven in, with a secure fit using some closed-cell foam and double-sided tape. There's some leftover breathing room/ventilation for the chargers. The bin tray fits on top.

Others apparently have OEM chargers installed on the outside of the trailer, between the tanks, etc.. This location choice was a non-starter for me for the obvious reason of not wanting to create major holes (and problems) where none currently exist. The IP67 is waterproof and can handle an exterior mounting location however.

Although the BT app is the best source for information on what the charger is doing in the moment, the two lights on the outside of the housing give you an indication of the stage at which the charger is operating, but no real numbers. If you need to occasionally, or frequently, look at the lights, then a bin mounting location could be preferable to trying to monitor one with an exterior/underside mounting. The OEM Volt/Amp meter may give you an accurate numbers representation, and hint at which stage it is operating, but maybe not. Amps going in should be reliable; voltage may not be.

For the reasonable price, wealth of included features, build quality, convenience, and the few installation concessions, this is an upgrade that seems hard to beat. Especially for those with a battery that asks for a little more care and feeding than a standard deep cycle-hybrid. I got a second charger for the garage and all my other batteries that need tending throughout the year, and I can optimize their different charging profiles as well.

 

[TheSongDogHouse]

Another great writeup, Steve, TY!
Good point in the OEM wiring gage vs output of a larger shore charger.

Noob ?:
If:
I'm hooking up my Victron shore charger
(like you, I am placing in right galley bin)
directly to the battery positive and negative side of Victron shunt that then ties to battery negative,

Then:
there is no danger of over- burdening/heating up the rest of the CI house wiring, amiright?

The house wiring is sufficiently sized and fused for the draw of fans, furnace, LED tails, cabin lights which comes off the battery seperately, correct?

The Dometic (the power hog) can draw DC from cabin or galley cigarette plugs,
or via the 110v AC outlet(s) that are only on when AC shore power is tapped at a campsite or genny, correct?

Someone mentioned best not to run Dometic plugged into house cig plug as same time as charging house battery iirc as that would energize that circuit, which might heat up, using with a powerful aftermarket charger, that is significany greater in amperage than the OEM.

Plus running Dometic might delay charging
and I assume screw with the shore chargers schedule.

Thanks again.
PS: I store light stuff in right side but gonna copy your foam insert idea to lessen rattles and gear adrift on the cast iron.
PS2: if one has the CTEK for alternator/solar charging be sure to RTFM
and
change the wiring that is different from lead acid, AGM, LiON which controls that devices charge output.
Ask me how I know...

 

[Steve and Karen]

I'm hooking up my Victron shore charger
(like you, I am placing in right galley bin)
directly to the battery positive and negative side of Victron shunt that then ties to battery negative,

Kevin: I did a straight-up factory replacement with no variation in wiring, and which was reassuringly simple, once I pulled it all out and apart. In fact, I didn't stop at the SAE two-prong quick-connect in my hand in the second pic; I followed that wiring back to one of the Ground Posts, and the Pos wire to the Fuse Panel where it was protected with a 10A fuse and labelled "Charger". That 16ga wiring had been compromised in an earlier short-circuit incident and I thought it best to replace it. So I went with 14ga. But 16ga would have been adequate for a 7A charger.

My installed shunt is a number of steps and connections removed from this charger wiring.

I believe that a properly installed shunt should be drawing a small + current from somewhere in order to run the internals (mine comes off the battery + post and also allows it to judge OCV better, or more accurately). But the crux of the shunt wiring is that the two main connections on the shunt are counting Ah directly off the neg battery post, with nothing between the shunt and the battery. And that no other neg/ground connections can be made to the battery; everything must run through the shunt in order for it to count all draws.

Not sure how to answer your other questions. Only that the shore charger and the shunt seem to be on opposite ends of the mess of wires I was dealing with.

It's still a mystery to me the actual sequencing that CI uses in the placement of everything in the system (i.e. what comes before or after what), such as the battery itself and the main disconnect. The AC stuff is pretty straightforward.

However, I do know that my Victron/Shore Charger sends its wires directly to a nutted ground post and to the fuse panel. Where they go after that... ???

 

[TheSongDogHouse]

Steve, thanks!
Full disclosure: not an electrical guy so fully disregard my statements of fact until you talk to Cary first!

I do know that wiring changes every so often and mine had some additional added retrofitting a solar roof, so I am completely adrift on what goes where....

Sorry!

 

[Steve and Karen]

Kevin: NP

I am aware that no 2 trailers leave the factory in exactly the same configuration, with each coloured wire identical and routed the same way. That’s why I try to qualify my descriptions of what I have done to ours with a healthy number of “YMMV”s. In fact, I have fully documented what I have done to the trailer, and how to use it, for the next person who gets to enjoy it. Or as a gentle reminder to myself in later, declining years.

Don’t sell yourself short about electrical stuff. I was blissfully ambivalent (and equally ignorant) about the trailer’s wiring when we first got it. But it’s been a valuable education. And every time I pull a panel, dig a little deeper, or add something to it, I’m in awe of the complexity (and relative simplicity) that CI has managed to hide beneath the skin.

The good things about 12V: there’s little you (or someone else) can do that can’t be undone. Or is going to kill you. And there’s little that someone here, or at the factory, hasn’t already tried, or has a good suggestion on how it could be tackled.

I re-read your one question about running the Dometic off the battery while attempting to re-charge it. Yes, this could put some undue stress on the charger or possibly mess with the max/min timing of its various charge stages. I know that the Victron 7A has a recommended max Ah battery size of 70 (mine is 85 and already slightly exceeds that number). So I’m cognizant that running things off the battery while charging it could turn it into the effective equivalent of an even larger Ah battery. It has been suggested by others on the forum in the past that running the Dometic off the trailer battery while on the road can also put similar additional stresses on an alternator, trying to charge another battery (that is leaking out Ahs) that the alternator wasn’t specifically designed to look after in the first place. Best to do things (charging and drawing down) in discreet stages, if at all possible, and treat everything with kid gloves, until you know the weak points in your system. But those only reveal themselves in failures or blown fuses.

 

[Sweeney]

I'm lacking for time at the moment, maybe you've posted it herein ---- but I am curious if you get to 100% charge on the AGM and "stay there" over an extended stay --- I saw my Genius drop out showing an error that it was not able to complete the charge cycle since my 'normal' parasitic draw was just about the same as the trickle finishing charge....the genius was not 'smart' enough to bump the output...

Good charger, but I think their design assumption is that there is no parasitic draw and that messes up their calculations....

 

[Steve and Karen]

but I am curious if you get to 100% charge on the AGM and "stay there" over an extended stay

I assume that you mean with no intentional loads.

I just fully charged the AGM on both the Victron and the Renogy DC-DC yesterday. Both went into Float. So I set the Shunt to 100%. And notwithstanding some very short period test draws today during my install of the Maxx fan I have had nothing running off the battery and am curious to see how long I can stay at 100.

Both the Shunt and the Renogy have some minor drains. The Renogy consumes 60mA on standby, while the Shunt consumes a paltry <1mA, according to their spec sheets. The Shunt is showing a 0.11A continuous draw, which would be a somewhat accurate reflection of those two devices on standby. But the battery has stayed at 100% over the past 24 hours. We'll see how long it can go before I start to see some deficits of note. But it doesn't appear that I am dealing with any drains of which I am not aware.

The one curiosity I am dealing with is that the DC-DC turns on, even without my headlights/trailer tail-lights as a trigger switch. The Ignition switch is wired to the Camp-Inn "Lights" screw post which I tested beforehand as an on-off circuit. Oh well. I'm not opening up that can of worms again. The battery is in; it works. And so do the chargers and all the BT apps.

I seem to have avoided your charger issues. I have set both of mine in "User Defined" mode, and any of the specific elevated charge parameters that I have thrown at it, they seem to be able to handle without blinking an eye. The Shunt is a very handy window into the world of what the chargers are actually doing, and not simply what they are supposed to be doing.

But sometimes ignorance is bliss.

 

[Steve and Karen]

Update:

My powers of perception are waning. I did order a 12V / 7A Victron. What came and what I unknowingly installed was a 12V / 17A Victron. I missed the "1". It took some trouble-shooting (but no damage, or major inconvenience) before I discovered the discrepancy.

I had taken the battery down to 50% SoC and plugged in to shore. The app was telling me that it was "delivering" 14.8 V, but zero Amps. Which means it was delivering nothing. . After hooking up another battery, that was nearly full, to the charger, and confirming that the charger was indeed operating properly, I connected the trailer battery again, but this time directly, using alligators, and it pulled a whopping 17A. Which was my first clue I had either the wrong settings or the wrong charger. An internet search revealed that displayed voltages accompanied by zero amps to be indicative of a blown fuse or some other interruption of the circuit. I read the charger label, to my dismay, and I traced things back and discovered the Camp-Inn 10A fuse was blown.

Luckily I had already received my second 7A charger, and it was the proper one, and I installed it. I used the opportunity to add an SAE quick connector:

View attachment upload_2024-5-30_17-6-55.jpeg

View attachment upload_2024-5-30_17-7-17.jpeg

This gives me the opportunity to charge another battery (like the the TV battery, in a pinch) by removing two screws and the panel, and connecting the alligator clips.

I wasn't previously aware of the model-size discrepancy because this is the first time I had taken the battery down to 50% and the first time the charger had gone into "Bulk" mode. (Before this, the battery had never been below 80%, so it had always gone into Absorption Mode, and at a much lower amperage). In "Bulk" the charger applies the maximum amperage until the battery reaches the Absorption Voltage. In this case, it happened to be 17A. Which was way too much for the trailer's 10A fuse.

Nice to know that fuses actually work. And a good lesson to put new devices through their complete set of paces, before relying on them implicitly out in the field.

 

[David Rossiter]

With regard to the electrical system on the Camp Inn- I am not particularly well skilled in the electrical area either. However, I experienced a bedeviling charging issue when I switched out my AGM battery for a LiPO battery over a year ago. Ultimately I solved the problem. I won't go into the details.

But I also ended up replacing my CTEK with a newer version that had a LiPO charging profile and the Marinco with a Victron IP67 15A charger. I also installed a Victron Smart shunt. Along the way I became intimately and completely familiar with the entire wiring system of the Camp Inn trailer. I had some help from Craig. But mostly I learned by studying the wiring diagram in the owners manual. Often while leaning over the trailer matching the wires to the diagram. After doing this, I can tell you the wiring system is well documented in the Owner's manual and not that hard to understand.

 

[Steve and Karen]

Victron IP67 15A charger. I also installed a Victron Smart shunt

David: I’m assuming that you either upgraded the trailer wiring to accommodate the 15A charging (12 gauge wire, or 10, from the charger all the way to the battery and a 20A fuse), or you have set the set the charger at the lower charge setting.

If it was the former, how easy was it to install larger gauge wiring?

With my 85 Ah AGM battery, the battery size could manage a 20A charge, no problem. With very occasional charges of 30A. A higher charge rate would speed up the shore charging and not impair the battery or shorten its life. I only stuck with the 7A because i didn’t want to open a can of worms with a more powerful charger. As my blown fuse would tend to illustrate. But I would consider putting back in the 17A Victron if it wasn’t a big deal.

 

[David Rossiter]

David: I’m assuming that you either upgraded the trailer wiring to accommodate the 15A charging (12 gauge wire, or 10, from the charger all the way to the battery and a 20A fuse), or you have set the set the charger at the lower charge setting.

If it was the former, how easy was it to install larger gauge wiring?

With my 85 Ah AGM battery, the battery size could manage a 20A charge, no problem. With very occasional charges of 30A. A higher charge rate would speed up the shore charging and not impair the battery or shorten its life. I only stuck with the 7A because i didn’t want to open a can of worms with a more powerful charger. As my blown fuse would tend to illustrate. But I would consider putting back in the 17A Victron if it wasn’t a big deal.

Speaking from recollection, I don’t recall that I upgraded the wiring as it wasn’t necessary. I used the existing connector from the marinco. I’ve forgotten what gauge the wire was running from the charger connection to the battery. It goes through a 10 amp fuse. I did walk through it with Craig as it was doing the upgrade. Haven’t had a blown fuse yet. Craig and I had several discussions on wire gauge sizes for various reasons when troubleshooting my charging problem. I also did a bunch of research on wire gauge/amperage load/wire length. Most of the wires in the trailer are pretty short, compared to the spec in the gauge tables. So if you’re in between on wire size, taking the lower size isn’t necessarily bad. I’d have to look, but I may have switched out the 10 amp fuse for a 15A. I am sure I would have gotten Craig’s “sign off” before doing that.

I am no battery expert, but from all my investigations on battery charging profiles, I am not sure you AGM would get much bang for your buck with a bigger charger. With the AGM, assuming you don’t go below 50% SOC, you can only bulk charge about 30% of your AGM capacity. The AGM charging profile goes from bulk (max current, fixed voltage) up to 80% SOC then float (fixed voltage, decreasing current) until fully charged. The float stage takes a long time (8 hours?). That’s one of the great benefits of the LiPo batteries. They charge fast. Typically they’ll handle up to .5c, where c = the capacity of a battery. So a 100Ah Lipo battery can accept charger with up to 50A output! That’s just slamming the juice! You can go from 20% SOC to 100% in under two hours. And the Lipo battery algorithm doesn’t have a float phase like the AGM. So my 15A on the 100Ah LiPo is a dribble compared to what it could handle. I sized the 15A charge based on 1) my usage, being able recharge at 15A/hour was plenty adequate 2) the wiring upgrade necessary for a higher amperage charger, 3) what would physically fit in the trailer. CampInn offers the new 10A marinco with a lithium profile, paired with the 110 Ah LiPo battery. Perfectly adequate sizing. I went with the Victron ip67 15A because it paired with the same mobile app as my Victron smart shunt. And hey, it’s got 50% more output!

I have a 110 Ah LiPO battery, same mfg as the CampInn option. It’s a game changer. I highly recommend making the switch. Prior to making the switch, I carried a 100 watt solar suitcase. I also have 2000 watt Yamaha generator which I would sometimes use for charging, but mostly brought along to run the AC (which I don’t do often). When I got my 2020 trailer, I upgraded to a Dometic fridge (from the cooler). So I also got a 200 watt solar suitcase, figuring I’d need the extra capacity to charge my OEM AGM battery. Since I upgraded to the 110 Ah, I stopped shlepping the solar panels. With the ability to use the full capacity (down to 20% SOC) of the Lipo battery, I don’t really need the solar. My fridge draws about 15 amps her 24 hours. I keep the fridge in my TV when driving. I can go for days without putting much of a dent in the battery capacity. And with a 15A charger and a 20A CTEK, I can easily dump 15-30 amps into the Lipo battery in an hour or two. Either with the portable generator or driving.

It’s changed the way I think about energy while camping. In that, I don’t think about it anymore! It just become a non issue. So I strongly recommend upgrading to LiPo. It’s the single best thing you can do!

 

[TheSongDogHouse]

Speaking from recollection, I don’t recall that I upgraded the wiring as it wasn’t necessary. I used the existing connector from the marinco. I’ve forgotten what gauge the wire was running from the charger connection to the battery. It goes through a 10 amp fuse. I did walk through it with Craig as it was doing the upgrade. Haven’t had a blown fuse yet. Craig and I had several discussions on wire gauge sizes for various reasons when troubleshooting my charging problem. I also did a bunch of research on wire gauge/amperage load/wire length. Most of the wires in the trailer are pretty short, compared to the spec in the gauge tables. So if you’re in between on wire size, taking the lower size isn’t necessarily bad. I’d have to look, but I may have switched out the 10 amp fuse for a 15A. I am sure I would have gotten Craig’s “sign off” before doing that.

I am no battery expert, but from all my investigations on battery charging profiles, I am not sure your AGM would get much bang for your buck with a bigger charger. With the AGM, assuming you don’t go below 50% SOC, you can only bulk charge about 30% of your AGM capacity. The AGM charging profile goes from bulk (max current, fixed voltage) up to 80% SOC then float (fixed voltage, decreasing current) until fully charged. The float stage takes a long time (8 hours?). That’s one of the great benefits of the LiPo batteries. They charge fast. Typically they’ll handle up to .5c, where c = the capacity of a battery. So a 100Ah Lipo battery can accept charger with up to 50A output! That’s just slamming the juice! You can go from 20% SOC to 100% in under two hours. And the Lipo battery algorithm doesn’t have a float phase like the AGM. So my 15A on the 100Ah LiPo is a dribble compared to what it could handle. I sized the 15A charge based on 1) my usage, being able recharge at 15A/hour was plenty adequate 2) the wiring upgrade necessary for a higher amperage charger, 3) what would physically fit in the trailer. CampInn offers the new 10A marinco with a lithium profile, paired with the 110 Ah LiPo battery. Perfectly adequate sizing. I went with the Victron ip67 15A because it paired with the same mobile app as my Victron smart shunt. And hey, it’s got 50% more output!

I have a 110 Ah LiPO battery, same mfg as the CampInn option. It’s a game changer. I highly recommend making the switch. Prior to making the switch, I carried a 100 watt solar suitcase. I also have 2000 watt Yamaha generator which I would sometimes use for charging, but mostly brought along to run the AC (which I don’t do often). When I got my 2020 trailer, I upgraded to a domestic fridge (form the cooler). So I also got. 200 watt solar suitcase, figuring I’d need the extra capacity to charge my OEM AGM battery. Since upgraded to the 110 Ah, I stopped shlepping the solar panels. With the ability to use the full capacity (down to 20% SOC) of the Lipo battery, I don’t really need the solar. My fridge draws about 15 amps her 24 hours. I keep the fridge in my TV when driving. I can go for days without putting much of a dent in the battery capacity. And with a 15A charger and a 20A CTEK, I can easily dump 15-30 amps into the Lipo battery in an hour or two. Either with the portable generator or driving.

It’s changed the way I think about energy while camping. In that, I don’t think about it anymore! I just become a non issue. So I strongly recommend upgrading to LiPo. It’s the single best thing you can do!

Thanks David! Your advice and earlier guidance persuaded me to go LiPo too.

 

[David Rossiter]

Another great writeup, Steve, TY!
Good point in the OEM wiring gage vs output of a larger shore charger.

Noob ?:
If:
I'm hooking up my Victron shore charger
(like you, I am placing in right galley bin)
directly to the battery positive and negative side of Victron shunt that then ties to battery negative,

Then:
there is no danger of over- burdening/heating up the rest of the CI house wiring, amiright?

The house wiring is sufficiently sized and fused for the draw of fans, furnace, LED tails, cabin lights which comes off the battery seperately, correct?

The Dometic (the power hog) can draw DC from cabin or galley cigarette plugs,
or via the 110v AC outlet(s) that are only on when AC shore power is tapped at a campsite or genny, correct?

Someone mentioned best not to run Dometic plugged into house cig plug as same time as charging house battery iirc as that would energize that circuit, which might heat up, using with a powerful aftermarket charger, that is significany greater in amperage than the OEM.

Plus running Dometic might delay charging
and I assume screw with the shore chargers schedule.

Thanks again.
PS: I store light stuff in right side but gonna copy your foam insert idea to lessen rattles and gear adrift on the cast iron.
PS2: if one has the CTEK for alternator/solar charging be sure to RTFM
and
change the wiring that is different from lead acid, AGM, LiON which controls that devices charge output.
Ask me how I know...

Regarding using the Dometic while charging- the house cig plug is a different circuit from the charger circuit. But most importantly, the Dometic only draws the voltage and amperage necessary to operate. Any overload on a circuit would occur because of the pull of the “device”, not the “push” of the charger. The device only draws what it needs. So if the circuit is designed to carry the loads drawn by devices on the circuit, it should be fine. Not an electrician, but I think this theory is correct.

 

[David Rossiter]

Also, somebody commented above about the pros and cons of operating the Dometic fridge in the TV while driving. The primary reason I keep it in my TV while driving is the small enclosed galley space does not have adequate ventilation for the warm air discharged by the Dometic when it is running. This is especially true when it s hot outside. Many of us have melted chocolate when the galley is closed on a hot day. This situation causes the Dometic to short cycle and also run the compressor excessively trying to maintain the set cooled temp. Hence keeping it in a well ventilated TV, which is also air conditioned on warm days driving. Prolonging the life of the Dometic. Since the Dometic draws 3-4 amps when the compressor is running and the CTEK/alternator can charge up to 20A, you’re not likely to drain the battery. Even a smaller alternator would output more than 3-4A for charging.

 

[Randy]

Speaking from recollection, I don’t recall that I upgraded the wiring as it wasn’t necessary. I used the existing connector from the marinco. I’ve forgotten what gauge the wire was running from the charger connection to the battery. It goes through a 10 amp fuse. I did walk through it with Craig as it was doing the upgrade. Haven’t had a blown fuse yet. Craig and I had several discussions on wire gauge sizes for various reasons when troubleshooting my charging problem. I also did a bunch of research on wire gauge/amperage load/wire length. Most of the wires in the trailer are pretty short, compared to the spec in the gauge tables. So if you’re in between on wire size, taking the lower size isn’t necessarily bad. I’d have to look, but I may have switched out the 10 amp fuse for a 15A. I am sure I would have gotten Craig’s “sign off” before doing that.

I am no battery expert, but from all my investigations on battery charging profiles, I am not sure you AGM would get much bang for your buck with a bigger charger. With the AGM, assuming you don’t go below 50% SOC, you can only bulk charge about 30% of your AGM capacity. The AGM charging profile goes from bulk (max current, fixed voltage) up to 80% SOC then float (fixed voltage, decreasing current) until fully charged. The float stage takes a long time (8 hours?). That’s one of the great benefits of the LiPo batteries. They charge fast. Typically they’ll handle up to .5c, where c = the capacity of a battery. So a 100Ah Lipo battery can accept charger with up to 50A output! That’s just slamming the juice! You can go from 20% SOC to 100% in under two hours. And the Lipo battery algorithm doesn’t have a float phase like the AGM. So my 15A on the 100Ah LiPo is a dribble compared to what it could handle. I sized the 15A charge based on 1) my usage, being able recharge at 15A/hour was plenty adequate 2) the wiring upgrade necessary for a higher amperage charger, 3) what would physically fit in the trailer. CampInn offers the new 10A marinco with a lithium profile, paired with the 110 Ah LiPo battery. Perfectly adequate sizing. I went with the Victron ip67 15A because it paired with the same mobile app as my Victron smart shunt. And hey, it’s got 50% more output!

I have a 110 Ah LiPO battery, same mfg as the CampInn option. It’s a game changer. I highly recommend making the switch. Prior to making the switch, I carried a 100 watt solar suitcase. I also have 2000 watt Yamaha generator which I would sometimes use for charging, but mostly brought along to run the AC (which I don’t do often). When I got my 2020 trailer, I upgraded to a Dometic fridge (from the cooler). So I also got a 200 watt solar suitcase, figuring I’d need the extra capacity to charge my OEM AGM battery. Since I upgraded to the 110 Ah, I stopped shlepping the solar panels. With the ability to use the full capacity (down to 20% SOC) of the Lipo battery, I don’t really need the solar. My fridge draws about 15 amps her 24 hours. I keep the fridge in my TV when driving. I can go for days without putting much of a dent in the battery capacity. And with a 15A charger and a 20A CTEK, I can easily dump 15-30 amps into the Lipo battery in an hour or two. Either with the portable generator or driving.

It’s changed the way I think about energy while camping. In that, I don’t think about it anymore! It just become a non issue. So I strongly recommend upgrading to LiPo. It’s the single best thing you can do!

Great info, thanks for sharing Curious where you purchased your LiPo battery. Would you be able to share a link to the exact battery that you purchased?

thanks, Ramdy

 

[David Rossiter]

Great info, thanks for sharing Curious where you purchased your LiPo battery. Would you be able to share a link to the exact battery that you purchased?

thanks, Ramdy

Hi Randy,
Here is the link to the battery I have. The Company is Continental Battery, Precision is a brand they carry. The model number is PR110-DC+HT. First battery on the list. This is the same battery Camp Inn began offering in Spring 2023. I bought mine in June 2023. I am in the SF Bay Area was able to source the battery at a local Continental location. At the time this battery model was relatively new, so they had to order one from another location. https://www.precisionbatteries.com/lithium#

I would have purchased the battery directly from Camp Inn. However they are not able to ship batteries, since it requires special permitting. So you gotta buy direct from a battery company unless Camp Inn specs it in your new trailer.

I previously had a ReLion 75Ah LiPo battery. I bought that battery in 2022 when Camp Inn was evaluating Relion as as supplier. Ultimately they selected the Precision. I replaced the Relion for reasons related to the almost 12 month saga trying to solve my charging issue. During that troubleshooting process I suspected at various times I had a defective battery. It never really charged fully. After spending a bunch of time with the Relion technical support guy, they sent me a replacement battery. That one wouldn't charge either. Relion was going to send me a third replacement battery free. I decided to get the Precision battery, since it was 110Ah versus the 75Ah Relion. Yeah, I spent some serious $$ on the upgrade process. I was very much on the (bleeding) cutting edge doing the upgrade. It was pretty much working in parallel with Camp Inn while they were qualifying their LiPo battery/charger system. So there was some joint learning and also mysteries. Even though it took me months to solve my charging problem (with Craig's many hours of help), I am sure he could have solved the problem in 15 minutes if he had the trailer in front of him!

 

[Steve and Karen]

Steve, I noticed the VictronConnect app has an option to set the charge voltage to either 17a or 6a, so anyone troubleshooting or going slow step by step can try that.

True. The 7A has an even lower "low" setting of 2A. Which would be OK for a motorcycle battery as well. The app and the user-defined mode is a godsend if you have multiple, and multiple-sized batteries, or wish to squeeze the most out of just one.

As an aside, the conventional wisdom is that the "best" amp setting for a non-Li battery is 20-25% of its total Ah, and up to 33% as a very occasional maximum charge. A typical SLA or AGM size 24 battery for the trailer would be in the range of 65-85Ah, so a 17A charger would actually be ideal, and provide optimal charge times, with minimal-to-no heating or sulfation.

However, re-installing the 17A version would still likely require an up-size in trailer wiring and fusing, to be on the safe side. I've seen most of my charge currents well below 10A at most times. But when I did go to 50% SoC, the 17A did wish to put out 17A in Bulk. Once burned...

I have my 30A DC-DC charger and app set to put out 20A max (It can also do 10 and 30). But it is on 40A fuses with 8ga wire to the battery. So it's a different animal altogether from the shore charger.

I have a 110 Ah LiPO battery, same mfg as the CampInn option. It’s a game changer.

If and when the new AGM gives up the ghost, I will certainly consider the Li route. The higher cost and additional cold-weather care aside, the other metrics (faster charge times, higher charge currents, higher overall Ah capacity, deeper draws) all do make sense.

 

[David Rossiter]

Thanks, David, and Steve, Seth and a couple others for sharing learning curve and inspiration to dig deeper.

I'm on same path as you David, now puzzling out and troubleshooting some draws, etc hopefully with extra info provided by a Victron 500/50 Smart Shunt, a Victron IP67 17a charger, and a Precision PR110-DC-HT same as CI puts in for heated lithium option.
For me, being able to camp/boondock or just travel through cold areas without having to worry about lithium recharging cold (the battery BMS diverts some power to bringing heat to battery so you dont damage it- (why unheated lithium bat-trees can catch fire if charged by say, a roof top solar or sepearate panels on a really cold day...)

Victron seems to be a leader in this space but I'd always suggest starting with whatever Necedah uses if only to capture the learning curve there.

Steve, I noticed the VictronConnect app has an option to set the charge voltage to either 17a or 6a, so anyone troubleshooting or going slow step by step can try that.

I'm also in a 2010 560 that was upgraded at factory for me with CTEK, AutoW, and solar roof, and I'm on my third battery- having gone from the Walmart Everstart marine trolling battery thats dependable and proven as long time OEM, and have replaced the old MarinCo AC to dc shore charger that failed after about 13 years, relocated to right galley bin from OEM between water tanks position.
I tried a NOCO5 in between the Marico and Victron as it was on the Relion/Continental approved for Lithium list of chargers, per Cary, and cuz I had it handy having used it to trickle charge/repair a couple car and a Harley Sportser (son's) bat-tree that had gone low in storage.

So my learning curve is (painfully) slow but upward and worth it once its dialed in like it was leaving factory- roof solar and CTEK working like a champ in hot weather high demand running a dometic in freezer mode making ice in +100 conditions, boondocking.

Nothing like an ice cold beverage when you've been out hiking, hunting, or just desert rat hiding out in the shade...

Kevin, The Victron Connect app has been a great tool for seeing what's going on with the battery. Especially important with the Lithium. Both the Smart Shunt and the IP67 are connected to the VC app. So between the two I can track my usage and charging amps. It's also somewhat useful to cross check some of common information (e.g. Amps charged) between the two devices.

Regarding the Victron Connect settings for the IP67 (17A versus 6A), those settings can be changed either in the app or manually on the IP67. Similarly, there are other manual settings on the charger that can be controlled on the App. That said, just to clarify, you referred the charge voltage being set at 17A or 6A. That setting is for amperage (aka Current in the App). Voltages during charger are determined by the charging profile you select (lithium, lead acid, or manual config, etc).

There is no benefit to reducing the amperage setting from 17A to 6A on a lithium charging profile. It would just reduce your charging rate and increase the charge time. Theoretically it would take you 3 times as long (17/6=3) to charge your battery. The 6A setting is useful for batteries that cannot handle the 17A current charge. This would be smaller lithium batteries and lead acid batteries. The typical maximum charging current for a lithium battery (see spec sheet for your battery) is .5C, where C is the capacity of the battery. So you can use a charging current up to 50% of the capacity of your battery. So if you want to charge your small capacity 20Ah lithium battery, the maximum current (amperage) would be 10A. In that case you would need to reduce the setting from 17A to 6A.

Regarding following the Necedah lead- I agree. In cases where I deviate, I check with the boys in Necedah to make sure I am not doing something that won't play nice with the trailer. I went with the Victron and recommend it for a couple of reasons. First when I switched to lithium I needed a "gas gauge" that measured amps in and out. I chose the Victron Smart shunt over the Camp Inn device (I forgot the mfg name of theirs). I made the choice because the Smart shunt didn't require mounting a gauge and I preferred having the info on my phone app (Victron Connect) anyway. When it was time to upgrade to a lithium charger I chose the Victron IP67 because it also worked with the Victron Connect app, so I would have all the information in one app. The IP67 had the added benefit of maximum 15A maximum current versus the 10A of the Marinco Camp Inn was specifying. That gives me a shorter charging time.

 

[TheSongDogHouse]

Thanks, David- I'm following your lead on the Victron SmartBlue IP67 7/17 and using a Victron 500/50 Smart shunt for same: more info on whats going on. I'm now at the "double checking my trailer wiring with my fluke multimeter" and figuring out where the electrical arm bone connects to the shoulderbone"...

Steve, TY and in my case Its a painfully slow learning curve but upwards.
I may PM you or sepcor on your insider info on using the info from VictronConnect app in the field after some camping with mine.

Me personally, I use/want to maximize my POWAH so this is easiest way to DIY "moah data" without drilling holes to backfit a TriMetric.

I've had a couple interesting glitches that are most likely "my bad" so when I know more what I am talking about I'll post my learnings...

 

[TheSongDogHouse]

True. The 7A has an even lower "low" setting of 2A. Which would be OK for a motorcycle battery as well. The app and the user-defined mode is a godsend if you have multiple, and multiple-sized batteries, or wish to squeeze the most out of just one.

As an aside, the conventional wisdom is that the "best" amp setting for a non-Li battery is 20-25% of its total Ah, and up to 33% as a very occasional maximum charge. A typical SLA or AGM size 24 battery for the trailer would be in the range of 65-85Ah, so a 17A charger would actually be ideal, and provide optimal charge times, with minimal-to-no heating or sulfation.

However, re-installing the 17A version would still likely require an up-size in trailer wiring and fusing, to be on the safe side. I've seen most of my charge currents well below 10A at most times. But when I did go to 50% SoC, the 17A did wish to put out 17A in Bulk. Once burned...

I have my 30A DC-DC charger and app set to put out 20A max (It can also do 10 and 30). But it is on 40A fuses with 8ga wire to the battery. So it's a different animal altogether from the shore charger.



If and when the new AGM gives up the ghost, I will certainly consider the Li route. The higher cost and additional cold-weather care aside, the other metrics (faster charge times, higher charge currents, higher overall Ah capacity, deeper draws) all do make sense.

Just re-RTFM ing on the Precision spec sheet, assuming if I am reading it right, the recommended charging is at 20a, so the IP 67 7/17 could work the high side for best battery maintenance?

The key is nothing else before the shunt (thanks Steve).

Energizing any circuit elsewhere depends on whats being turned on, (thanks David)

Then its a question of "what electrical thing draws how much, and how many at same time", amiright?

The reason the shunt is so handy- feeding the TriMetric analog gauge, or Victron app via BT.

You can get an idea whats pulling what...

Hmmm.