Alternator Charging A Lion House Battery In Tow Vehicle - Using Victron

T

TheSongDogHouse

Ranger
There has been some discussion of using a Victron 12-12/30a "Orion" dc controller to alternator charge a Lion battery in rear of tow vehicle, as part of a larger topic of batteries.

I am interested in same in my VW Golf to charge a Relion Outlaw1072 via the Victron dc dc controller, and offered to share useful info.

In respect to the OP of the "dead batteries" below, by NOT thread jacking...
(and to help narrow and deepen the discussion to "alternator charging a house battery in the tow vehicle, specifically a LiON "pony" solar generator as the house battery)

I'm creating a new branch of that discussion here, for others considering same, and to discuss and share what works, tips, etc.

background: See Randy and Seth and Cary discuss the sub-topic here here:

Dead Batteries Aren't Much Fun

See this series of just brilliant videos and related blog entries here, with the vw info I need.:



And more about the author of youtubes above. Very educational.

About Me

PS: H/t to my outstanding vw mastertech pal for this find, and
Kudos to CI for hosting this thread, particularly Cary for careful wisdom
and thanks again Randy for sharing as I'd wondered but been stuck until you showed a way.

This gentleman at "StealthGTI" answered key questions and concerns touched on and discussed here and with Relion tech support that validate the solution confirmed by Cary, and with the missing VW info I needed.

Now my next task: to find a knowledgeable stereo shop to handle install!

Or DIY...advice welcomed.
 
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Interesting work on that VW by Scott! I really appreciate his approach to 12v power systems, and how he’s sharing what he’s learned. And his GTI is quite something, isn’t it!

Good luck on the project, looks like a good one. 72ah of lithium is a lotta’ usable power. If you get it on a good charging profile from your alternator it seems like that would really support long-distance travel/camping.
 
Thanks Seth, agreed Scott at StealthGTI is quite the craftsman and talented, a pro electronics tech from a rugged marine environment background...which is the neat overlap with CampInn design aesthetic and quality.

I'm essentially looking to "replicate with portability", the CI's solar roof/alternator trickle charged CI house AGM as controlled by CTEK...

With a similar "solar by folders when sitting in camp/alternator trickle charge via Victron to Relion as pony" in the Alltrack.

I also need a cpap so the portability of Relion as removeable pony means i can get a couple three days more if no sun to the CI roof and its thus drained battery.

This means both peace of mind backup plus longer off the grid boondocking.

The next challenge is:
can the VW alternator handle both at same time alternator charging while driving down the road...

1. I know from the 10ga/30a fused power from VW starter battery to CTEK that sips 6a to charge the house agm on alternator, thats working well

And

2. From the Stealth GTI guy youtube, that the the Victron modulates the amps well within the VW alternators capacity to charge his setup, a similar use for an LiOn sogen pony should work in my VW...like Randys is demo'd on Jackery in his Ford?
 
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But the $64,000 question is can the alternator hack two at once?
And might those two different dc controllers somehow sense the other? CTEK and Victron?

Might need a manual battery isolator to choose one at a time, not both...hmmm...
And a fuse box for more toys...
dash cam,
old cb radio,
maybe a ham base unit later...

In a year for bucket list trip (PanAmerica?)

Roof mounted baja led bar
or
old school moose-spotting Nordic-style
Hellas spot-beams on the bumper.

Hey a guy can dream, amiright?
 
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Pilgrim said:
But the $64,000 question is can the alternator hack two at once?
And might those two different dc controllers somehow sense the other? CTEK and Victron?

Might need a manual battery isolator to choose one at a time, not both...hmmm...
Click to expand...
Ah, now I’m getting the bigger vision :)

I’m thinking no, the CI CTEK and the aux Victron in the TD can’t be aware of each other. I guess there’s some possibility that at least the Victron will be aware of low voltage supply and turn off. Maybe the CTEK as well? But any sensing & action of that type will be based on supply voltage, and the two chargers might interact in unexpected ways. I’d think it would be a big downside if they both drew to their full capacity and burned out the alternator.

Scott brought up the idea of a second alternator in one of his explorations; if possible, that would be one route that keeps the various charge circuits working as designed. Or, he also speculated whether a larger alternator from another VW model could just bolt into his GTI.

It looks like you need up to 55a to supply both chargers simultaneously.

Manual battery isolator? If you could figure out where to put it a marine battery switch is designed for just this sort of task. Perhaps the place would be (inconveniently) under the hood. Somewhere between there and the dashboard…

Or, perhaps in the back near your Outlaw?

I wrassled with these questions with my pony. Eventually I decided to leave decisions for another day, taking the decision that 10 days of power would have to be enough for the time being. And it has been, as our outings range from 3 nights to a week+.

If/when we retire, should we undertake some longer trips, we’d either have to hit shore power weekly, or perhaps install a smart 12v/12v charger in the CI with a battery switch between the two batteries (CI & pony). I’ve also thought about the CI factory install of solar, that it could do a lot of charging of the CI battery if driving every third day, leaving the alternator to charge the pony. It’s not how we’re camping now, but maybe someday.
 
SethB said:
Ah, now I’m getting the bigger vision :)

I’m thinking no, the CI CTEK and the aux Victron in the TD can’t be aware of each other. I guess there’s some possibility that at least the Victron will be aware of low voltage supply and turn off. Maybe the CTEK as well? But any sensing & action of that type will be based on supply voltage, and the two chargers might interact in unexpected ways. I’d think it would be a big downside if they both drew to their full capacity and burned out the alternator.

Scott brought up the idea of a second alternator in one of his explorations; if possible, that would be one route that keeps the various charge circuits working as designed. Or, he also speculated whether a larger alternator from another VW model could just bolt into his GTI.

It looks like you need up to 55a to supply both chargers simultaneously.

Manual battery isolator? If you could figure out where to put it a marine battery switch is designed for just this sort of task. Perhaps the place would be (inconveniently) under the hood. Somewhere between there and the dashboard…

Or, perhaps in the back near your Outlaw?

I wrassled with these questions with my pony. Eventually I decided to leave decisions for another day, taking the decision that 10 days of power would have to be enough for the time being. And it has been, as our outings range from 3 nights to a week+.

If/when we retire, should we undertake some longer trips, we’d either have to hit shore power weekly, or perhaps install a smart 12v/12v charger in the CI with a battery switch between the two batteries (CI & pony). I’ve also thought about the CI factory install of solar, that it could do a lot of charging of the CI battery if driving every third day, leaving the alternator to charge the pony. It’s not how we’re camping now, but maybe someday.
Click to expand...
Seth, thanks for reply and validation on two dc controllers interfering...I'll call Victron and noodle a bit if I can find a tech rep there.

Fwiw, I decided to look into Relion as a sogen provider because Cary and Craig were looking at Relion for replacements to the CI house battery, ideally when battery self warming tech was ready, and from what I could tell then; Relion which is big in the big marine biz and expanding fast into big RV biz, seemed to have the engineering talent on board.

Thats certainly not a comment on Jackery which has been doing great things in sogen market, nor Goal Zeros great marketers, nor BattleBorn, a USA maker of batteries, some hard working dudes in UT/NV.

I just prefer the marine environment experience as thats hardest on gear, in my past life user experience.

Plus if you lurkers havent noticed there are some seriously smart people in Necedah.

But, I digress...where was I...
 
SethB said:
Ah, now I’m getting the bigger vision :)

(Snip)
Scott brought up the idea of a second alternator in one of his explorations; if possible, that would be one route that keeps the various charge circuits working as designed. Or, he also speculated whether a larger alternator from another VW model could just bolt into his GTI.

It looks like you need up to 55a to supply both chargers simultaneously.

Manual battery isolator? If you could figure out where to put it a marine battery switch is designed for just this sort of task. Perhaps the place would be (inconveniently) under the hood. Somewhere between there and the dashboard…

Or, perhaps in the back near your Outlaw?

.
Click to expand...

Yes, manual isolator seems the simple bulletproof way, with least cable run and resistance loss (4ga, Scott? Oofda!)

Not in the very hot underhood the 1.8tsi produces even in the shade, never mind 115 degree driving past Lost Wages in summer...can fry eggs on the hood...

But, yeah- thinking mount Victron on inboard side of front pax foot well, upright per Victrons instruction with a manual battery switch there.

And a fuse box to add stuff later, more pro-style, than me unplugging and replugging usb cables and extensions all over my dash to the already burdened 15a cigarette lighter plug up front and rear...

The Relion can strap down in that footwell when I am solo for best weight-balance, and or go in the back seat/rear set delete niche created for it, close enough to the same Dometic35 as other CI owners, truckers, overlanders, and Scott at StealthGTI use to chill adult beverages to immoral temps, make ice or freeze Yeti Blue Blocks- (my plan, as copied from Carys reference to another CI user)

to rotate into the Coleman that lives in galley-
no soggy ice bags to change out every three days in the desert...been there done that...Dear Wife needs her ice cream if I am gonna talk her into long range glamping...and an ice cold drink is a luxury worth indulging in after a long hot hike.
 
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PS: if those considering Relion have noticed, they recently became part of a larger marine products company, and couple weeks ago announced a deal with West Marine for distribution.

So I called the local harbormasters and asked who they know that does best marine electronics work, got same name as Relion tech guy mentioned, and that guy said marine grade manual battery switch...he'd never done a VW install but thiught it made sense to go that way- how most early extra battery installs were done in jeeps, baja trucks, etc before the electronic battery isolation circuits in CTEK and Victron tech, which is newer, I'd guess.

Thats how I'll separate the two: house Relion pony battery alternator trickle charge on Victron from CI house trickle charge on CTEK.
 
One last comment: and thanks for reading my long winded self noodling here:

This is NOT yet an endorsement of the Relion Outlaw, as I havent road tested it yet, and its only their first product in the portable sogen market.

One could as easily do same on Jackery, Goal Zero and see Cosmo Weems videos and many others testing those.

Or on your own parts and battery wired together on your own tow vehicle rig in a setup like Scotts.
See Relions new Insight line of 6V self heated for that, which I imagine will sell like hot cakes in the booming ATV hunters and jeeping world...anyone been to red rock country lately- swarms of ATVs or side by sides...
So, yeah good stuff coming, but those are just a 'scosh too tall to fit in the CI, as Cary noted.

I'm just real impressed with the tech help I got from Relion, and looking forward to the Group24 self heared LiON whenever. I suppose a guy could put a battery warmer like Scotts under the Relion non heated 70ah in Group24, if I recall they do offer...

Anyway...pony portable which can be warmed in the car with heat on, below freezing, is my work around until then...dometic plus for cpap backup which also may not apply to most.

What I can aay about the CI solar roof is its a slam dunk well worth it upgrade- working like a champ and greatly extending range of use on the house battery.

Y'all know good panels will gather some power even on cloudy days and the CTEK/car trickle charge has been flawless so far on my finicky electrical VW system like it is on most newer german cars with CANBUS architecture.

So, getting there...
 
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Update: talked to a couple shops...and commissioned my vw mastertech and "rv camping with family" pal.
One option is have a vw alternator up-wired, as in many custom car audio and light setups.

Putting together wiring diagram parts, etc to test Relion via victron, fuse box for later goodies, a manual isolater,
Alternator mounting/upgrade deets to try later in fall.
With solar on cargo box...?
 
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