Solar Panel Experiment

[Sweeney]

I managed to eke out another non-rainy camping trip This time without power. I got the last campsite in the state, and it was a non-electric site. The one thing about Autumn I especially like is that air conditioning is not a requirement.

With the standard flooded lead acid battery and a 50-watt solar panel, we could stay right where I want in terms of battery. By late afternoon, the battery was at 100% and ready for the evening and night.

I ran my domestic fridge 24x7, and plugged in a couple of phones to charge. I ran a Maxxair fan at 30% all night as a ceiling fan and used a few lights as needed -- perhaps 30 minutes in total. For meal prep, setup of the camper, and getting ready for bed. This was Friday night into Saturday morning.

Upon awakening, the lead acid battery was at 12.5 volts. So used 10-15% perhaps? This is not an exact science. As the sun was rising, I plugged in the solar panel. A small 50 amp panel I got a decade ago , I'm certain newer ones are far more efficient where I saw a little current. I didn't monitor it all day, but the biggest I saw was in the 2 to 2.5 amp range.

Doing it again --- I'd get a solar blanket. I'm going to be watching for a deal.

This was in mid-October, so the sun is starting to get low in the sky. The day was probably as ideal as possible without a cloud in the sky. I tipped my panel as close to perpendicular to the sun as I could, but did not rotate it often...adjusted it 3-4 times. Still by 4:30 we were charged up to 100% --- 12.8 volts, which I think still had a slight surface charge on the battey.

Saturday night we watched a movie coming from my media server (running on a Raspberry PI setup) and ran the furne briefly to remove the chill from the air. Which was a lot less frugal with power and was at 12.4 in the morning. I wish I would have had a few more days to trend this out

Bottom line, solar is an option if you are frugal or have more amperage than I do --- I think I'll be looking for a folding panel -- hopefully small enough to fit in a storage bay under the mattress....Any recommendations?

 

[Tour 931]

Thanks for the info. I want to get the CI roof mounted panel they they get them in.

 

[JohnC]

Bottom line, solar is an option if you are frugal or have more amperage than I do --- I think I'll be looking for a folding panel -- hopefully small enough to fit in a storage bay under the mattress....Any recommendations?

I own a couple of portable panels and did quite a bit of my own testing. The two I own are....

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Renogy-...ne-Solar-Panel-RNG-KIT-STCS100MB-NC/315613808

https://www.amazon.com/BLUETTI-Portable-Station-Foldable-Charging/dp/B08JZ62F8L?th=1

As an aside, the HD price on the Renogy is a super price. It's usually $300. The Bluetti is at regular price and it goes on sale around $250 off and on.

As a general rule, rigid panels are more efficient than the cloth panels. They dissipate heat better. (Based on my testing) The Renogy also weighs almost twice as much as the Bluetti. My favorite of the two is the Renogy Eclipse suitcase. However, it won't fit in the storage bin of the 560. Like you, I wanted one to fit in the storage bin which led to my purchase of the Bluetti. It fits nicely.

When tested at home in exact same conditions, I could consistently get almost 10 more watts of yield out of the Renogy despite it being rated for only 100 watts and the Bluetti 120 watts. While I found that disappointing, I still preferred to travel with the smaller and lighter Bluetti panel.

There are other brands of folding portable panels. Some will fit the 560, some won't. I don't know if any are really better than the rest. Many people do not understand the variables in testing and make some rather outlandish claims about how great their panel is. It may well be fine but none are going to have major efficiency advantages if you are comparing apples to apples.

I have the rooftop solar and have yet to need to use the portable panel to power the trailer. I have it mainly to use as a potential power supply for the solar generators I carry.

 

[Sweeney]

Sounds like the choice is pretty simple. I can not carry anything more in the living area, whatever I get must be stowable...so bluetti. Even if it is not as technically superior.

Perhaps someday the price of vehicles will be more acceptable --- then a van will be in my future. My desire is to carry the bulky items like chairs, grills, and tents in the van, keeping the residency part of the camper cleaner. But right now that isn't in the cards.

I hate having to pull all kinds of items out just to stop for the night and I just don't have room for "1 more thing"

Whatever I get, it will be worlds better than what I have.

 

[Sweeney]

Thanks for the info. I want to get the CI roof mounted panel they they get them in.

I did too -- but I kind of came to the realization I need to be able to move the panels. Most of the places we camp are in the trees and a roof-top solar won't do much for me. Which is too bad because that is literally a zero space solution

 

[JohnC]

Sounds like the choice is pretty simple. I can not carry anything more in the living area, whatever I get must be stowable...so bluetti. Even if it is not as technically superior.

Perhaps someday the price of vehicles will be more acceptable --- then a van will be in my future. My desire is to carry the bulky items like chairs, grills, and tents in the van, keeping the residency part of the camper cleaner. But right now that isn't in the cards.

I hate having to pull all kinds of items out just to stop for the night and I just don't have room for "1 more thing"

Whatever I get, it will be worlds better than what I have.

I understand exactly how you feel. I hate having to pack more stuff into the car or even the 560. Everything stowed in the trailer has to go somewhere once you arrive. Everything in the car has to get juggled upon arrival. The less I can load and unload, the better.

As annoying as it is for the bluetti to be less efficient even though 20% more rated wattage, the reality is that for my intended usage, it isn't a big enough factor to worry about. I've only used it a couple of times and didn't really need to run it very long. I charged for a couple of hours just because I was hanging out at camp and thought I would take advantage of the time.

 

[Sweeney]

I understand exactly how you feel. I hate having to pack more stuff into the car or even the 560. Everything stowed in the trailer has to go somewhere once you arrive. Everything in the car has to get juggled upon arrival. The less I can load and unload, the better.

As annoying as it is for the bluetti to be less efficient even though 20% more rated wattage, the reality is that for my intended usage, it isn't a big enough factor to worry about. I've only used it a couple of times and didn't need to run it very long. I charged for a couple of hours just because I was hanging out at camp and thought I would take advantage of the time.

To be honest, I'm a bit surprised --- I'm NOT an expert on the solar equipment marketplace. I have been halfway considering a battery pack, and bluetti (on paper anyway) seems to be a pretty nice unit. I'm surprised they would put their name on something that is arguably worth 1/5 of its advertised price. 20% is a lot.

This will get far more interesting when I start looking at the residential solar --- but I've got a few things that need done before that....mostly paying off the house

 

[dustinp]

....

This will get far more interesting when I start looking at the residential solar --- but I've got a few things that need done before that....mostly paying off the house

Solar on the house can be a great investment.

 

[JohnC]

To be honest, I'm a bit surprised --- I'm NOT an expert on the solar equipment marketplace. I have been halfway considering a battery pack, and bluetti (on paper anyway) seems to be a pretty nice unit. I'm surprised they would put their name on something that is arguably worth 1/5 of its advertised price. 20% is a lot.

This will get far more interesting when I start looking at the residential solar --- but I've got a few things that need done before that....mostly paying off the house

The most foldable and lightest weight panels are always the cloth ones. And that's why all vendors charge the premium. For whatever reason, they hold heat more so than the rigid panels. Which is what makes them less efficient than the rigid ones. And of course the rigid ones will always be heavier and for the most part less accommodating to packing for trips.

As for the solar generators themselves, you really need to understand how you would use it and therefore what features matter most to you. For the most part, the size of the inverter and the capacity are the two biggest cost drivers. Don't buy what you don't need. Sometimes easier said than done. LoL!

 

[SethB]

I own a couple of portable panels and did quite a bit of my own testing. The two I own are....

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Renogy-...ne-Solar-Panel-RNG-KIT-STCS100MB-NC/315613808

https://www.amazon.com/BLUETTI-Portable-Station-Foldable-Charging/dp/B08JZ62F8L?th=1

As an aside, the HD price on the Renogy is a super price. It's usually $300. The Bluetti is at regular price and it goes on sale around $250 off and on.

As a general rule, rigid panels are more efficient than the cloth panels. They dissipate heat better. (Based on my testing) The Renogy also weighs almost twice as much as the Bluetti. My favorite of the two is the Renogy Eclipse suitcase. However, it won't fit in the storage bin of the 560. Like you, I wanted one to fit in the storage bin which led to my purchase of the Bluetti. It fits nicely…

Bluetti 120w panel fits in under-bed bin? That’s a pretty hot tip. Thanks!

 

[JohnC]

Bluetti 120w panel fits in under-bed bin? That’s a pretty hot tip. Thanks!

The SP120 does. Not sure about the PV120. When I was researching I noticed that many of the folding panels fold to different dimensions. Some would fit some wouldn't.

Edit: A quick check of the PV120 looks like it would not fit. Buyer beware.

 

[SethB]

The SP120 does. Not sure about the PV120. When I was researching I noticed that many of the folding panels fold to different dimensions. Some would fit some wouldn't.

Edit: A quick check of the PV120 looks like it would not fit. Buyer beware.

Thanks for the clarification! Adding the Bluetti SP120 to my list of things that fit in CI storage. I think I’ll post all my “cool stuff that fits” findings in a new thread. A CI is *not* a big camper, so having stuff that works with the size and storage can make a big difference. Accessorize, accessorize, accessorize!

 

[JohnC]

Thanks for the clarification! Adding the Bluetti SP120 to my list of things that fit in CI storage. I think I’ll post all my “cool stuff that fits” findings in a new thread. A CI is *not* a big camper, so having stuff that works with the size and storage can make a big difference. Accessorize, accessorize, accessorize!

Yeah, post that list! I’m always looking for the easy/lazy solution. LoL .

 

[Sweeney]

Thanks for the clarification! Adding the Bluetti SP120 to my list of things that fit in CI storage. I think I’ll post all my “cool stuff that fits” findings in a new thread. A CI is *not* a big camper, so having stuff that works with the size and storage can make a big difference. Accessorize, accessorize, accessorize!

That's the name of the game! Every "tour" I give gets this as part of the discussion --- you have to be selective about what you take, and you will find that often things you think you need you don't, or they aren't worth the headache. Then, there are big items that you may find you just "can't live" without.

 

[JohnC]

Some cold wx testing now ahead for me...up on the Kaibab...if lucky before it closes out, maybe Valley of Fire, Joshua.

If you decide to visit Joshua Tree let me know. Maybe I can meet up with you. I live about 100 miles from there. Been meaning to plan a winter trip there.

 

[Sweeney]

I am not sure --- maybe I am just missing the point.

Is the interest in LIFEPO4 to add to the time between charges, to eliminate the need for solar recharging (100ah LIFEPO4 vs usable 50 AH Lead acid?) Or, is it to improve the efficiency of the charging, meaning you can put 50Ah back into the LION in a shorter period of time w/ the same voltage and current?

 

[Steve Sanford]

We have two 50 watt rigid solar panels from Goal Zero. I mounted an old Yakima roof basket to the 560 roof rack and cut part of the basket out so the roof fan cover can open up. I added a panel to cover the hole when traveling and we carry solar panels and canopies on the roof rack. The basket sits high enough that we can open the vent cover just enough for the fan to run so if we are just stopping just to sleep then we do not have to unload the roof rack. Once we setup camp I take the cover out so the vent can open all the way. I have one of the solar panels setup so I can lock it to the roof rack if we are leaving for the day and if we are in camp I can set both solar panels up in the best location for sun exposure. I changed the ends of a heavy duty 1o wg extension cord to go from the solar panels to the camper. So far we are happy with the setup and it gives us flexibility to charge the battery based on sun exposure. We use a cooler so we do not need a lot of electricity-charge phones, lights and the roof fan.

 

[Sweeney]

I dunno, I'm not as interested in energy saving (that's a plus) but energy independence. I think the past couple years is a good example why that is important.

If my grid goes down for some reason I'd like to be able to keep my freezer, fireplace blowers, and basic lighting working until grid power returns. Generators rely on gasoline --- which requires electricity to get from the tanks --- if something goes on for more than 3 or 4 days the gas tanks are going to be getting low. Even my little Hondeaux or Yamahamamama inverter generators that sip fuel will go through gallons in a day.

God only knows what the 5kw big boy will use, not to mention the neighbors in the next subdivision will hear it.

 

[rmbrowder]

Not Sweeney, but I have installed a 22k propane Generac with a 500(400 useable) gallon inground tank. It “replaced” a Honda 6.5k generator that runs on gas. I kept the Honda as a standby. I think it’s a bit much though. Both systems have done a superb job of warding off hurricanes along my section of the Florida gulf coast. The Generac can run everything for weeks as long as the oil stays good. It just came on for a 1.5 hour power loss last night during dinner.

 

[Sweeney]

We're getting a bit astray from camping here. An inverter generator for a few hours here and there works fine...I can definitely see the benefit. But a whole house brings a different set of challenges.

I’ve considered the large generator route. I own a 5k that my Dad gave me. Boy, are those open frame construction generators loud! I got spoiled by my hondeaux

The problem with generators is maintenance, mechanical wear, and noise. Generators have a somewhat limited life expectancy. A couple of thousand hours is probably typical -- 2000-3000 hours seems to be the "Little long in the tooth" number. 3000 hours would mean about 125 days of 24x7, assuming you stop every 4 days to change the oil (100 hours)

A 5k generator which should certainly be enough to run the basics...but that is still a pretty sizable generator.

With gasoline the burn rate for that size is about .75 gallon an hour, less for an inverter with a throttle. That's 125 gallons a week. Storing that much fuel is a bit of a problem. 25 Jerry cans. Rotation of the tanks and the safety issue of having that much fuel stored could be an issue without permits and meeting other regulatory requirements. Propane might be a better choice, but buried tanks are a real problem in my area --- our water table is very high and large tanks in a suburb would be severely out of place. Natural gas -- lets talk to our friends in Germany to see how that works...

For a couple days, generators are fine....but I'm personally preparing for off grid OR extreme long term.

For my off-grid cabin that I dream of, obviously I only have once choice.